40 replies to this topic

[Albus Dumbledore]

Today during lunch, i was hanginng out with my math teacher and he was talking about plans on building an elevator that leads into outer space!!

personally i think this would be total awsome!! but here is how it would be donw,

ok, welll as some of us know once you reach a certin point in space gravity gives awayand instead of pulling down towards the planet, it pulls away from the planet.. and so the ideal is to get a HUGE weight, probably like a humongus space station or somthing big n heavy and putting it right outside of the earths geosynchronous orbit (which is: basicly the last part of the atmosphere... but defined by wikepedia! it is A geosynchronous orbit is a geocentric orbit that has the same orbital period as the sidereal rotation period of the Earth. It has a semi-major axis of 42,164 km [1] Thanx!)

so now, wit that counterweight they would have all of the mechanics i would imagine up there with a cable built up of material with a super high tensile strength..i think my teahcer said it was somthing like microorganisms or somthing like that.. but the cable would span from earths surface to the counterweight in space with an elevator that basicly went up and down hat cable..

people would prefer this over using rockets..i think it would be safer..

i had a question but it was answered--the weight in space would move around with the earth, so i wouldn't stay in one place...

i think it would be much better to do this..less polution! and they can have things take off from a platform in space >_< that would be soo cooll

i also thing it would be cool if you could pay to go up there and stay for a while!

i hope somthing like this does happen before i die! hehe

[moldboy]

I think one thing most people liking of when they first hear this idea is, "what about the ring of fire" As we say on the Simpsons when Homer returns to earth (and on many other shows) there is a shield of fire that covers the earth, that's why they have super thick heat shields, so you think won't the cable have to withstand that heat? Now I'll admit I had the ame thought when I first heard about it but, that passed after a few seconds when logic struck and of course there isn't a ring of fire, and if the elevator moved slow enough then there wouldn't be enough friction to generate one.

[jlhaslip]

So aside from trying to create a 42,000 kilometre long rope and getting it into space, and getting the counterweight there as well, how would you return the counterweight to the space platform after it got used the first time. It would take a whole mess of energy to haul that thing back up there. (again)
Mind you, I'm no engineer (thank the stars).

[Plenoptic]

Ya I don't think this is gonna happen anytime soon. There is the atmosphere that will still burn you up as you go through I believe no matter how fast you are going. I don't quite think you will be able to have an elevator do that, it would take 100 years to build and figure out because what are we gonna do when we get over 1000 feet building it build a bigger ladder? Not trying to ruin anything but it wouldn't really be safe either. If the elevator gets stuck they would have no way to get down unless they have a parachute but if they in the ozone layer they are done for. I could go on and on about how this wouldn't work but I think you get the picture. Unless they figure out how to work through all this I think their plan is sunk.

[Albus Dumbledore]

more info could be found here http://en.wikipedia..../Space_elevator although it might be dangerious, i would be willing to be the first person to do it.. i do not believe that we would have to worry about leaving the atmosphere because nothing really happens there except pushing up against gravity verry heavily, but coming back down into earth at no matter rate we would have to pass through a few unsafe things, but if they can make a spaceship pretty much deflect it, i think that in the future *not too far out* they will have a material that will deflect fire, and keep it from melting in any way shape or form..but like i said, i would be more than willing to try it out..even if i make it half way up there i am sure the sight would be magnificent..but no matter what consequences i still think it would be totaly awsome to have like a hotel up there lmao!

[Avalon]

I remember seeing a newspaper article on this subject. If I remember correctly there is a competition going for the first person/company to do it.

Being as I work for an elevator company, the article sparked a great deal of interest. A few questions come to mind, assuming it is eventually possible.

What if the elevator breaks down midway, how does the mechanic get there to fix it and how long would it take? How would you survive while you're waiting?

How long would the trip take and will you have to listen to "Elevator Music" all the way? I think if you did, you'd be insane by the time you got there!

I'll see if I can find the article and I'll quote some of it here.

[moldboy]

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If I remember correctly there is a competition going for the first person/company to do it.

I don't know if this is the same thing but I remember hearing that NASA holds a robitcs compition where the builders are to design a robot who can climb a ribon going straight up, I believe this has to do with designing a chamber that can climb a rope to space.

[vujsa]

Pretty sure Star Trek Voyager had an episode about this concept.

The space tether where a space station is at the other end of the shaft. The idea of using a counterweight and cable wouldn't really work because the length of the cable needed would cause it to be either too heavy to lift itself or too weak. A crawler would work best.

The rack and pinion system is the way to go. The further up you go, the less gravity that is exserted. It would be slow but in a few hours you'd be in space. Coming back down would be fine at a manageble speed (under 1000 MPH) since the reason things burn up in the atmosphhere is because of the extreme friction caused by the super high speeds (mach 20+) of falling objects from space.

The problem is building such a thing since the tallest buildings in the world are nowhere near the required height.

more later.

vujsa

[Cool_Freaker]

Seriosly, I'm not an engineer nor do I pretend to be, but that is one of the most stupid and inefficient ideas i have seen thus far.

[moldboy]

How do you mean? Stupid maybe, you're intitled to your opinion. But are you telling me that the current way is more efficent? That red tank is full to the top with rick fuel, and all that fuel is burned up in the first few minutes of flight.

[catfish]

to geosync? ya right...

im sorry, but your not going to build a tower 1,836,218 kilometers high... (and then some.)

the energy you are going to need to send up an "elevator" is going to be no less then sending up a rocket. AND i seriously doubt that there would be enough of anything to build that relativly stable. not to mention you would have to replace billions in dollars of satalites that would be in the thing's way.

plus some guy is going to blow it up from the base and the whole thing will come tumbling down...

[Plenoptic]

Like I said you will burn up in the atmosphere. It will take them years to figure out how to get it to work maybe decades. I don't think they are going to figure it out in this lifetime unless we find some new technology to help us out. The higher you go the colder it gets and then in the atmosphere you burn up. Also there is a lack of oxygen so you would have to have a huge tank of oxygen in the elevator to last. lol I can imagine, someone halfway to space when they get stuck. "Honey, I just wanted to call to tell you I might be late for dinner"

[Cerebral Stasis]

I read an article in a science magazine about this a few years ago. Let me see if I can smooth out a few wrinkles in the posters' brains.

First of all, there is no "ring of fire" as you so call it. As was mentioned in an earlier post, the only reason things burn up while entering Earth's atmosphere is because of the extreme friction resulting from falling at high speeds through the mesosphere.

Wikipedia said:

Millions of meteors burn up daily in the mesosphere as a result of collisions with some of the billions of gas particles contained in that layer. The collisions create enough heat to burn the falling objects long before they reach the ground.

That is why Burt Rutan's Space Ship One does not need heavy thermal shielding for reentering Earth's atmosphere (it instead uses a wing technique that allows it to lose enough speed to safely reenter the Earth's atmosphere without creating enough friction to cause the vehicle to be incinerated).

The tether would be composed of thousands of carbon nanotubes, which are able to hold enormous amounts of weight. These nanotubes would be woven one at a time by robotic "rovers" that would roll up and down the tether, adding an extra thread each time it went up or down. Although this would take awhile, eventually the tether would be strong enough to hold a lift that could carry something as gigantic as a space shuttle up to the counterweight spacestation, from which it would be launched, greatly reducing the amount of fuel necessary for it to lift off (those savings, in and of themselves, would make the cost of making such an elevator worthwhile). Elevators, whether self-powered or powered by a current running through the tether cable, would be able to move at enormous speeds, yet avoid being burned up in the atmosphere when going to or from the counterweight.

Now, the counterweight for the tether wouldn't fall to Earth if the tether snapped - that would defeat the whole purpose of it's being a counterweight. It would fly off into space and would eventually be retrieved, although it may be difficult and take quite a bit of time.

Since the elevator itself wouldn't be run by the complicated and unreliable mechanics that normal elevators are run by, they would rarely break down (and would never break down at all, if they were regularly given maintenance). The elevator itself wouldn't require any more energy to lift an object clear to the counterweight than it would take to lift the same object on an elevator completely within Earth's atmosphere the same distance. The energy required to lift the object will only decrease as the craft gets higher (since gravitational pull will decrease), and going down, little or no energy would be required at all, save to hold the elevator back so it does not descend too fast.

Contrary to what many of you have been saying, while there would be risks involved, as there always are, this space elevator would be a much more efficient and much safer means of transporting people and equipment to outer space. What would you prefer to use to get into space - an elevator that pulled itself up along an anchored tether, or a gigantic bomb that exploded downward to push you up?

In any case, I doubt anyone here has much to worry about at the moment, since such a technology, if it's ever attempted, won't be economically feasible for a few decades, at least.

[elevenmil]

I'm not a science goof nor am I slightly interested in science, but this all seems like a nice little fairy tail story to read to the kiddies at bedtime. Honestly, this whole idea sounds quite ridiculous. Firstly, the money spend on this project would be a total waste, and it would be A LOT of money, no doubt. The issue of the elevator breaking down would be troublesome indeed, due to the fact that many of our aviating devices cannot fly at such a incredible altitude. It would be extremely difficult to fix a problem at the crest of our atmosphere and we would need to develop a craft that is capable of flying at such an altitude, which I believe hasn't been done nor will be in the near future. (Maybe I'm wrong there, but hey, like I said, I'm no science goof).

Ultimately what we're looking at is a huge costly project that will have little benefit, only providing us an opportunity to say "look what we can do". Right now the whole idea is what I mentioned earlier, a fairy tale. It would be hard to even write a realistic fiction on it...

But hey, this is what our society has become. We live in a world of competition. Everyone comes up with new ideas that try to out-do everyone. Heck, if we do ever make this pathetic elevator, the next thing we'll try to do is extend it to Mars, so all the little martians can travel back and forth...

[moldboy]

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we would need to develop a craft that is capable of flying at such an altitude, which I believe hasn't been done

No it hasn't been done, one of the main reasons is because there isn't anything in that high up for the craft to ride on. However who says you would need to fix it with an airplain (of sorts)? You could just have another ellevator car go up after it, it after all wouldn't be tradational with pullies and the works. It woule much similar to an inch worm crawling up a building.

[Avalon]

Cool_Freaker, on Jan 25 2006, 03:06 AM, said:

Seriosly, I'm not an engineer nor do I pretend to be, but that is one of the most stupid and inefficient ideas i have seen thus far.

And just think, not so long ago some people thought a network of computers all linked together across the world was a stupid idea. Why would a person want to allow some other person's information to pass through their computer system and use their resources, free of charge? It's called the Internet.

Where would we be if we didn't explore some of these stupid ideas?

[Cerebral Stasis]

elevinmil, did you even read any of the posts before yours? I mentioned in the post right above yours what the benefits would be - millions of dollars saved in fuel required to lift off, heat shielding would no longer be an issue, and those two things are the main (if not only, thus far) causes of failed manned space missions.

And in order to fix a stopped lift, all one would have to do would be send up another lift after it, have some "spacewalkers" repair the lift, and then you're good to go again. Of course, that's assuming a lift would break down, which, considering how much service the lift would have, wouldn't be a problem, since it would be constantly being upgraded, repaired, etc. before being used.

[Avalon]

Cerebral Stasis, on Jan 26 2006, 11:40 AM, said:

Of course, that's assuming a lift would break down, which, considering how much service the lift would have, wouldn't be a problem, since it would be constantly being upgraded, repaired, etc. before being used.

Trust me, it WILL breakdown. I don't care how much maintenance it gets, it will still break down at some stage. Take for example the space shuttle program, how many problems has that had? They spends millions on checking, testing and checking again, but being we are human, we make mistakes from time to time.

[Albus Dumbledore]

lol, and if it brakes down it should have like a secondary one right next to it to finish it off..or they would have a trained professional go out and fix it, they have things like these figured out just hidden from us.. unfortunatly..but umm i would still be willing to be the first to do it, wether is is sure fire (good to go) or not. lol it would be a once and a lifetime oppertunity..i would imagine they would have the first person go up and try it without making them pay, i mean if it does brake their life could be on the line..

[Arigato]

I remember reading about this elevator a while back. When I first heard of it I thought it was a crazy idea that wouldn't work but then I read about people who were working on projects to create such a thing. I still think that the idea won't work.

[elevenmil]

Cerebral Stasis, on Jan 25 2006, 08:40 PM, said:

elevinmil, did you even read any of the posts before yours? I mentioned in the post right above yours what the benefits would be - millions of dollars saved in fuel required to lift off, heat shielding would no longer be an issue, and those two things are the main (if not only, thus far) causes of failed manned space missions.

And in order to fix a stopped lift, all one would have to do would be send up another lift after it, have some "spacewalkers" repair the lift, and then you're good to go again. Of course, that's assuming a lift would break down, which, considering how much service the lift would have, wouldn't be a problem, since it would be constantly being upgraded, repaired, etc. before being used.

I don't believe in benefits from this, and like I said before all of this is fairy tale gibberish.

How can we possibly "save" millions of dollars? Firstly, the cost of this thing would be horrendous, and I don't believe it's free to travel up however-many-miles it takes to get to space. The whole project in itself is unsafe and would be undesireable by a majority. In addition imagine the elements this object would go through. Obviously we are aware that as we climb the elements change (weather, wind, and up 30 miles God-knows-what...) The stress just from nature's elements would be of significance.

I'm all against the stupid space studies we do anymore. Why in the heck are we sending some spacecraft to roam around Pluto??? Why not use that money to stregthen our economy? Why not halt the project and buy each American a couple loaves of bread instead? NASA is unbelievable...I wish I could blow off hundreds of millions of dollars just because I was curious about something...

Why don't we examine our own planet before venturing off onto others? I think Earth has a level of importance incomparable to anything else other than our sun...

[Cerebral Stasis]

I'm not saying that NASA knows how to conserve money (they practically wipe their butts with a roll of $100 bills), nor am I saying that this whole lift concept is a good idea; I'm just saying that it's possible, and it probably would save money in the long run.

True, a lift that would climb all the way to space would cost money, but not near as much as it costs in fuel for a craft as large as a space shuttle to overcome Earth's gravitational pull. Although the tether and station would no doubt be very costly to build and keep running, over time the saved money would outweigh the original cost of construction. Thus is the reason people upgrade (in most cases) - to save money over time.

Now, as I said, if a lift stopped halfway up, another lift could be sent up after it, and a repairman in a suit and tethered to a lift could repair it within a few minutes (unless something major happens, like a motor burnout, in my opinion, would be unlikely) - far before the oxygen in the lift would run out, causing everyone inside to suffocate (furthermore, it would probably be equipped with some kind of air scrubber/recycler).

As for weather being a problem, I'm pretty sure that a tether that can hold the weight of a lift and spacecraft can withstand hurricane-strength winds, especially since it would be tethered by something as gigantic as a space station. Besides, in order for it to remain in geosynchronous orbit and not just wrap the tether around the planet, it would have to be tethered on an island somewhere along the Equator, and in that latitude (depending, of course, on which island is used), hurricanes usually aren't too much of a problem (at least *I've* never heard of any hurricanes go as far south as to the Equator).

I'm pretty sure that the idea is quite sound. It is, after all, being worked over by minds far greater than any of ours (at least in some aspects), so I'd expect that, for the most part, they know what they are doing/talking about.

[unicornrose]

I believe the space elevator thing is going to be using nanotehnology or something like that. The cable would not be moving around. It would have to be anchored in place. You can not have a cable just willy-nilly floating around the globe. I will eventually hit something. Ideally there would be more than one space elevator. It will not be a quick jaunt up to space like the space shuttle. We are talking about something that will take days to do. Ideally as you are being transported you will be gradually being exposed to weightlessness. A space elevador is not like a normal elevator at all. Its design and implimentation will take much planning and thought. Ideally when it comes to opperating a space elevator there will have to be a mechanic on the elevator at all times to fix any problems that may come up. There will also have to be alternative ways to get into the space elevator or to get out of the space elevator if problems do arise. I think of a space elevator as kind of like a small lounge or shuttle of some sort. Its all very facinating.

[wariorpk]

My point is what is the point of this. So what if there is an elevator to space? I have no reason to go there and I never want to go there. It is a hostile land of no heat except from radiation and there is no gravity or life. Besides that, getting up the elevator would take days. Aircraft could crash into the elevator killing all the poor souls in it. This just seems like territory I wouldn't want to venture in even though its a cool idea in theory.

[Albus Dumbledore]

well obviously the cable would have some kind of signal letting airplanes jets etc.. know that it was there, they would have the lights etc..

lol and obviously there are loads of things that they would need to work out..