28 replies to this topic

[elrohir]

I knew this would turn into a flame thread I suppose I'm either some idealistic hippie or a commie b4stard...

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Last time I checked, the 8.8 trillion or whatever deficit wasn't affecting me...

I never said it was, but you did say that the US had the world's strongest economy.

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Think about what you read yourself, I won't do that for you. It means that when you're 21, people from other countries usually are as smart as you will be at 21 while they are 18.

I can live with that. It also means that I can take both the IGCSEs and the IB and have the liberty to choose from most universities. Take into account that the university system works differently in "most other countries", so being 21 doesn't always have anything to do with it.

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Please give examples of some countries where you will have the same amount of financial freedom and the opportunities as the USA.

Well, I can list the countries I have lived in...
Norway
England
France (education in France is terrible, though; unless private)
Belgium
the Netherlands
Scotland
Ireland
And I'm sure there was something I was too young at the time to actually give a reliable account of.

I know those are all in Europe, but apart from the dint in the US, I haven't lived outside it. So in that respect, my knowledge is limited.

So you make more money now. I'm going to ignore the fact that things cost more (and the fact that you now have more "needs" to supply for), and just go on to the people that didn't make it. You go to any large city in the US (well, anywhere...) and there are people on the street dying of hypothermia every single night. Now, for a country with "the world's best economy", that's not to hot, is it. And to think of where the money in this good old place is going...

I am also an immigrant, and we have moved often since we first came to Norway. As I said, mostly within Europe, but I feel that that has given me if not the experience of all cultures, which would be impossible, then at least enough experience to judge what I see, and to figure out how it affects me.

Should we move the thread to the spam forum? Wait, there isn't one here, is there. Pity I can't do a proper flame, then. I'm really in the mood for it.

[nol]

Its only because what does it really have to do with us anyways? I mean sure its the law and everything..but usually its expected you just know who wrote it, nobody really cares whats in it. At least thats what they teach us here.

[biscuitrat]

Some people are genuinely ignorant and completely oblivious to the fact that an education could JUST MAYBE be a good thing. It frustrates me sometimes when people will turn in made up answers to questions they should have known, or complain that an assignment that they learned to do in class is difficult.

This, however, does not fit either of those cases.

I too have confused certain things in my head. As far as I'm concerned, as long as these students know what the Declaration of Independence stood for, and what the Constitution stood for, and are able to analyze both documents, that part of a government requirement is fulfilled. The rest is an intense memory game. I have committed the preamble to memory since elementary school -- however, aside from my Quiz Bowl team and perhaps Jeopardy, that information is seldom used. It is the same for the opening line of the Declaration of Independence. While the subject matter is ever so important, the actual line can be forgotten without too much worry. I don't like that it's being confused or forgotten, but I'm sure that I would have mistaken it, had I been reasonably distracted.

It's memory, not intellect, that's at stake here. Some people can remember things and others cannot. To hold them to having an absolutely all-consuming memory is ridiculous. It's not about America, or Americans (though we are getting rather fat and lazy); it's about memory. Give these guys a break.

As for the rest of what they said, my first paragraph ought to prove adequate

[elrohir]

nol, on Jun 4 2007, 01:28 AM, said:

Its only because what does it really have to do with us anyways? I mean sure its the law and everything..but usually its expected you just know who wrote it, nobody really cares whats in it. At least thats what they teach us here.

What does it have to do with you? Everything!
Isn't it more important to know what the thing is saying that who wrote it? The writers are dead and rotted away, yet what they wrote is (mostly) still applicable.

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At least thats what they teach us here.

And what do YOU think?

[dre]

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Some people are genuinely ignorant and completely oblivious to the fact that an education could JUST MAYBE be a good thing.

Yes, but we can't have everyone be a doctor now can we? Adam Smith's ideas come true.

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I never said it was, but you did say that the US had the world's strongest economy.

That's correct, with the "debt" and all, it's the worlds strongest economy. Wonder why the Chinese and a lot of minorities buy out American debt so eagerly...maybe they know it's a great investment and that they'll be paid back fully and on time...

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Well, I can list the countries I have lived in...
Norway
England
France (education in France is terrible, though; unless private)
Belgium
the Netherlands
Scotland
Ireland
And I'm sure there was something I was too young at the time to actually give a reliable account of.

Enjoy your tax rates then. Out of that list I'd say Belgium's tax rates are tolerable, everybody else is ridiculous (highest there is 85% tax rate I believe)... Corporate tax rates that is, not income. Despite that, tax rates like that here would surely spark outrage. So let's say you want to make a company. Do you start one here in the U.S.A. with about 7.5% tax or in one of those countries listed where you might be able to get away with about 40-50% if you're lucky? Wow that's a hard choice... Such great incentives to work for when 1/2 your money is taken. No wonder why so many move to the U.S.

So what's the point? Well, if you're in the US, you can be an entrepreneur without having any degree. In fact, most of the entrepreneurs I know are college dropouts who said screw the system and found their own way, a better way. Education doesn't dictate our economic strength, and never has, so that means we're doing something right.

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Should we move the thread to the spam forum? Wait, there isn't one here, is there. Pity I can't do a proper flame, then. I'm really in the mood for it.

Hilarious, it's a mystery why I never see you on Comedy Central. Oh wait...spam actually means replying with a 2-3 word post, or something like "lol"...Oh, there goes your chance for fame.

Edited by dre, 04 June 2007 - 10:44 PM.

[etycto]

Cool_Freaker, on Jan 24 2006, 02:21 AM, said:

Are Americans so stupid that after taking 12 years of school, that after they enter college, taking college level courses, they still do not know the difference between the Declaration and the Constitution?

i dont beleive its as much stupidity but lack of appreciation. in my years of being in america i found that those who are born here take too much advantage of their "rights" and even abuse them. the worst thing is the whole "freedom of speech thing" kids especialy, thinks that "freedom of speech" gives you the right to be rude and curse someone out.
and worst off all they dont realise that the ignoranece, of their own contries legal system, allows many body to take advantage of them. until americans realise how "lucky" they are they're not going to bother to know the diference between the constitution and the decloration.

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Its only because what does it really have to do with us anyways? I mean sure its the law and everything..but usually its expected you just know who wrote it, nobody really cares whats in it. At least thats what they teach us here.

are you serious, just knowing who wrote it is not going to stop some cops, and scamer from taking advantage of you

[elrohir]

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That's correct, with the "debt" and all, it's the worlds strongest economy. Wonder why the Chinese and a lot of minorities buy out American debt so eagerly...maybe they know it's a great investment and that they'll be paid back fully and on time...

Actually, one of the reasons that nobody worries about the debt is that it will never be paid back, and there's nothing anyone can do with it. China and "a lot of minorities" don't mind anymore because they only lent the money they didn't need and because it gives them the opportunity to rape the US market - aka filling the shops with cheap crap.
In time? That's hilarious. The debt hasn't gone down in ages, and it's not about to do so now, is it... (Yes, I know about replacement, but still.... 8.8 trillion...) If the US has such a damn strong economy, it might as well just pay them back, right? Or perhaps give public schools all of the funding they need?

Yes, I do enjoy the tax rates. I'm not about to start a business, so the business taxes don't bother me at all. I can tell you, though, that 85% is bullsh*t. You can shoot whoever told you that (though I will tend to believe that it randomly popped up from the depths of you own brain).
From Wikipedia, the total average in Norway (I'm using that because it's the country I have stayed longest in and that I am most familiar with) goes between 37.3% and 29.6%.
What I think you need to realise is that the social structure is completely different. There are few poor people. There are few extremely rich people.

I think what you might be referring to is "Oljefondet", which is the tax levied on petrol. Yes, compared to your give-away prices, this is expensive. It does not, however, affect people the same way it would you, since few people (perhaps as a result) insist on driving large/high consumption cars. (What is the point of an SUV if you are only going to drive on roads?) It has reduced the spontaneous growth that would normally have occurred as a result of the international oil-sale.

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So what's the point? Well, if you're in the US, you can be an entrepreneur without having any degree. In fact, most of the entrepreneurs I know are college dropouts who said screw the system and found their own way, a better way. Education doesn't dictate our economic strength, and never has, so that means we're doing something right.

If education plays such a small role in future success, then quite obviously there's something wrong with the education system, which, in case you had forgotten, is what this thread is about.

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Hilarious, it's a mystery why I never see you on Comedy Central. Oh wait...spam actually means replying with a 2-3 word post, or something like "lol"...Oh, there goes your chance for fame.

There's a difference between a flame and a spam. And why would I want a job there anyway? American humour sucks... (They never seem to get sarcasm right. It's always to obvious. Do they know what "subtle" means?)

[dre]

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If education plays such a small role in future success, then quite obviously there's something wrong with the education system, which, in case you had forgotten, is what this thread is about.

OMG dude are you serious? Honestly, learn the skills of critical reading before you talk to me, this is freakin ridiculous.

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The debt hasn't gone down in ages

Hey genius, does that mean that 0% of it is being paid off?

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And why would I want a job there anyway? American humour sucks

Oh yea, my boss isn't hilarious so I'm totally going to quit my job... (FIY, channels from you country can be viewed here so you can enjoy all the subtleness that you want)

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85% is bullsh*t

What part of highest possible don't you understand? I managed to get the 40-50% fairly right didn't I?

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What is the point of an SUV if you are only going to drive on roads?

Maybe because going shopping here is the equivalent of driving halfway through most European countries?

[joeblogg]

that seems strange that they don't know the difference between the declaration and the constitution but i guess everyone has memory blanks or something lol.