27 replies to this topic

[ATMcGuire]

I just read the topic about Christianity that sounded like it was started by a middle school kid. This topic is to redeem the discussion of religion and creeds.

This is not a reply, but it is an initiative to start an intelligent discussion of religion or creeds.
This is a question to each person who reads this to tell the world what it is they believe and why.

What experiences in your life led you to these creeds? What group or people do you tend to disagree with most?

Note: Please distinguish between Atheist and Agnostic. I have talked to many people who call themselves atheists but just spend all their time trying to disprove other religions while not having a single conclusive reason for calling themselves Atheists. An atheist is a person who finds it so unlikely for a higher power to exist that they refuse to believe one exists or that they feel they have evidence to prove one doesnt exist. An agnostic is a person who doesnt believe there is any or enough proof to establish a higher being.

My response to my own question:

Now I am a Christian. I hope I dont say anything as mindless as that my religion or myself because of my religion is superior. In fact, I dont really believe that it is beneficial to me at all. That isnt the job of religion. I am a Christian because I believe it is true. If you want to know why read The Third Day by Sir Arnold Lunn (its been a while) and Mere Christianity. But also what was more important to my conversion actually happening is that really messed up stuff happened to me and my family that made me really look at what is right and what is wrong. I do not think we evolved a conscience; Otherwise it would be different... or maybe look at it this way. If we were to continue evolving, men are going to turn into people who just try to have sex with as many different women as possible. Our society supports fatherless children, and so we will either have that OR individuals will decide for themselves. I learned from the father roles in my life, not by their example, but by their counter example. I know what is right and wrong, its not something that my father passed on to me or something culture instilled in me. It isnt what church taught me... It is what I know I need to do to live my whole life infront of the world and not be ashamed.

Ok so if I look at the Bible and what Jesus said; I find that what I believe to be right or wrong is verified by what I read. Take lust for example. It is easy to think that its impossible not to and as it is unavoidable it must be ok to do. But it is equally easy to not want your girly to want other guys. And so there is a disconnect. We know what is right but we cannot do it. It is this disconnect that I believe a perfect man, a humiliated God died for. I am not trying to convert anyone.

I believe in what is steady and unchanging in Christianity. Not the fads. For example in the 70s and early 80s it was popular to try to convert people by saying that God had a plan and purpose for their lives. It is just retarded to say that to someone. Or Jesus wants a personal relationship with you. It is like saying 'Billy has a plan and purpose for your life.' I think I would slap the person that said that to me. Its like just some trick that you would pull on a monkey to take advantage of their curiosity.

Oooo.. Here is another one of those I really hate. 'Jesus will fill the void inside of you.' For me it is more like Jesus taught me to not think like a hedonist and know that a void inside of me is something deficient with my personality not something I need to encounter and consume. Lots of Christians are fat. If they really trusted God to fill the void they would stop stuffing their faces. Do you know what would hit the spot right now??? A cold beer, a T-Bone steak, and my girly having sex with me right now. If God's purpose was to fill the void then Ronald McDonald would be a holy prophet.
So as for the Christian conservative majority, I disagree. For beliefs and morality based on rationality, personal responsibility, and a care for other people, I agree.

[truefusion]

I must say, i agree with you. There are too many "christians" out there. And too many people out there that play the "religion game". Unfortunately, that makes us, the ones that properly do things, look bad. But, what's even worse are the ones that killed in the name of God. Bah! Many people just go to church just to go.. A church is a place to learn. Not so you can boast about that you go there.. You think you need to dress up nice to go to church? Only the priests do. Everyone else can go casually. Another thing, for those who pray out in public, where everyone can see them, even on T.V., that's not right.. You're supposed to pray inside closed doors. And many other stuff, i cant think of at the moment.

[ATMcGuire]

I think as far as TV goes, there is only one person I would let my children watch. If you take Pat Robertson for example, he makes the news basically only when he is making a fool of himself and other Christians. And there are always ridiculous things on some of those channels... like a guy preaching to his church that the Catholic church was the anti-Christ.
It turns out that many times some of these Penecostal people are so focused on their 'God' that they forget his purpose's. I am not sure, but it seems to me that many of them talk much more about helping people than they actually do. I am on the Penecostal side of things kinda and this is part of what I see wrong with things.

[Joshua]

I trusted in Jesus simply because my life was falling down around me. I started questioning God and trying to "bargain" with Him and while life didn't get any easier, I started seeing ironies and coincidences in my life on incredible levels. They led me to seek God more and I started examining the Bible and realizing more and more, and how much of it was truth. Then on August 5, 1998, in a Christian summercamp, I heard the good news of the Gospel preached. I had no problem accepting I was a sinner, just recently a recurring thought for me had been "I'm the most evil person in the world." I was living so bad a life even I couldn't excuse my actions, and I knew I needed to change. It was more then just the torture inside of me that made me want to change, but how I was translating my pain to others around me, including those I cared about.

As a Christian, I know the only difference between me and the unsaved is God's grace. Being a Christian doesn't mean I'm better, it just means I found mercy. I don't claim to be flawless, I claim to have admitted I'm not, and in so repenting to have found mercy through my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I don't claim to have the answers, I claim to know the One who does have them, Jesus Christ. What true answers I've found have been given by Him and the way I've learned is by listening as objectively as I can to all questions and questioners, looking into things for myself, and most of all, admitting when I'm wrong even if I don't like it. Without humility, the learning of anything meaningful (which is often controversial) is nearly impossible. I have learned that giving a person the right answer doesn't mean as much as how you give it. Better to live the truths you have found and not speak them then to speak them and not live them.

I don't claim a philosophy saved me, or a religion, or a doctrine, or a church, or a special prayer. I was saved by Jesus. My faith is in a man, a man who is God, a man who is different in that He loved unconditionally, was kind to all in need. He worked miracles and awed others with His power over nature, and was witnessed by many that He never died, but ascended into Heaven where He even now is, and His power over all the elements of nature is as absolute as it ever was.

Furthermore, I have held up the Bible and Jesus for the past 5 years to the questions of all. I have seen my faith in its reliability and validity grow by leaps and bounds even though I'd made an eternal commitment to trusting them rather then anyone or anything else. Even though I consider Jesus and the Bible's reality and authority unquestionable, having placed my trust in them eternally, I listen to the questions of others that I may help them realize that trust in God does not mean intellectual suicide, as Josh McDowell says. Sooner or later one has to take a leap of faith upon seeing enough evidence to persuade them eternally, but that evidence may have been as great as the physical proof given to Thomas or the intellectual legal arguments of Paul.

I have seen some of the greatest objections to the Bible answered like the atheist's "Problem of Evil" and "Free Will" arguments, as well as questions about why supposed "Christians" have done evils in the name of Christianity. I have seen supposed contradictions in the Bible's logic fall apart upon examination. I have seen scientific evidences like the bombardier beetle and examination of what singularities are make alternate theories to Biblical truths look foolish and unlearned. I have seen the Bible held up to the same standards of historical reliability (internal evidence, external evidence, and bibliography) as other historical documents, only to see it has so great a weight of evidence to back up its validity and reliability as to be embarrassing in contrast with all other historical documents in history. I have seen and personally examined the hundreds of Messianic prophecies, written thousands of years before Jesus was even born (physically), that foretold where He would be born, what others would say about Him, how much He'd be betrayed for, and even the exact manner of death for Him foretold long before the Roman empire even existed to invent it!

I don't have all the answers but if I ever run into one I can't answer, I have already long ago seen so much truth and proof for the Bible and Jesus that I will simply side with the Bible and Jesus because of the "track record" you could say. For example, if you find a book that has 999 truths to it and then see that 1 you can't figure out and could possibly be wrong, does that mean you decide it is wrong and the book is faulty? No, it means you simply may not be smart enough to figure it out, there is not evidence enough to realize its truth, or that you may have misread what it was saying. Also, I may see how it COULD still be truth or how it could be true even though I don't know all the details, meaning I can't absolutely say it's a lie.

[ATMcGuire]

A book that has been around for a while and mostly just discusses evidence for Jesus life on earth is The Third Day by Sir Arnold Lunn. If you are actually to read it, it has pretty strong arguements for basically the most important part of Christianity there is. That Jesus existed and was who he said he was and was crucified for us.

Link to the text.

But others who run across, I did not mean this topic to be Christian at all. So please post.

[Joshua]

ATMcGuire, on Apr 4 2006, 12:01 PM, said:

A book that has been around for a while and mostly just discusses evidence for Jesus life on earth is The Third Day by Sir Arnold Lunn. If you are actually to read it, it has pretty strong arguements for basically the most important part of Christianity there is. That Jesus existed and was who he said he was and was crucified for us.

Link to the text.

But others who run across, I did not mean this topic to be Christian at all. So please post.

I would recommend "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell. It's recent, a short and easy read, inexpensive, concise, and very, very good.

[BooZker]

OK first i would like to say i believe in no God. And there is a reason why. No, not because i think it's dumb or i hate christians, jews, ect, but because of my school.

When i went to school (a private catholic one) i found out how little evidence and how much lies are being spewed into little children. Some of the lies they told us were these things:

• If you believe in God with all your heart you can levitate
  
• If you say bloody mary 3 times in a dark room looking in the mirror youll see mary
  
• santa is real (haha don't want to make this do depressing)
  
• If you do not believe in Jesus you wont be accepted into heaven

There are many more but i have proved all, but the last one wrong. For the last though, they said even if you live in another land where they don't even know of Jesus you wont get into heaven unless you accept him at the gates to heaven. What i have to say about that is. That's is just DUMB. Not only is it not thought out, but it really is just stupid. What about Ghandi? Let's say there is Jesus. You think he wouldn't let him in? I don't know of anyone who dosnt think he is a great person.

Another thing is they don't do as they say EVER. Do not kill? I could come up with over a million times christians have killed. A TRUE chrisian would never kill. Even in war they should not kill. They should not join the army then. This is one thing that people never have a good argument for. Because there is none. And also our divorce rate will exceed people who stay together in 3 years (in the USA) and it just so happens that Christians are the majority here.

If christians, jews, muslims, all follow there beliefs this world would be a great place. And i think there was a Jesus at sometime. I also think there was a Buddha. Because of these lies i have been told it makes me hard to believe in any religion.


Now before people get mad at me i got to say I have no problem with people believing in whatever they want to, but i HATE it when they try to get others to think the same way. Keep it to your self.

And with that thought i let you go lol.

OK, but seriously no hate mail

[kasm]

BooZker, on Apr 29 2006, 12:58 PM, said:

When i went to school (a private catholic one) i found out how little evidence and how much lies are being spewed into little children. Some of the lies they told us were these things:

• If you believe in God with all your heart you can levitate
  
• If you say bloody mary 3 times in a dark room looking in the mirror youll see mary
  
• santa is real (haha don't want to make this do depressing)
  
• If you do not believe in Jesus you wont be accepted into heaven

The first point and the fourth point are the core of Christianity. The salvation, incarnation of Jesus and his Resurrection . Accept that or you are not Christian. As in Islam you become Muslim if you confirm two points: "No God but Allah and Mohamed is God's messenger"

The third point was misunderstanding of you. When they said that Santa is Real they mean that St Nicholas , the Bishop in Turkey but not the American fair tales of Santa. The same I spoke about real Santa in this two posting to this forum:
St Nicolas: http://www.trap17.com/forums/index.php?sho...c=31564&hl=kasm
Evolution of santa http://www.trap17.com/forums/index.php?sho...c=31566&hl=kasm

The second point is fantasy, nobody say that of sure. When I saw St Mary in 1968 in Cairo with million, the Vatican sent delegation to investigate the matter: see my part of posting in:
http://www.trap17.com/forums/index.php?sho...c=33658&hl=Mary
http://www.sedrak.tr...com/st-mary.htm
By the way you asked no hate post and in the same time you come to threat and named St Mary as Bloody mary!!!!

You could if you don't want say St Mary , to refer to her as Jesus'mother Mary instead of these street language.

BooZker, on Apr 29 2006, 12:58 PM, said:

.. For the last though, they said even if you live in another land where they don't even know of Jesus you wont get into heaven unless you accept him at the gates to heaven. What i have to say about that is. That's is just DUMB. Not only is it not thought out, but it really is just stupid. What about Ghandi? Let's say there is Jesus. You think he wouldn't let him in? I don't know of anyone who dosnt think he is a great person.

There are many great people in history [whatever right or wrong] but they are not Jesus and some of them didn't follow him. It was the responsibility of disciples and others to tell all the world about Jesus and they did and lost their life in that mission..They have they trace in history. People who heard about Jesus and rejected him they will be responsible for that matter. Ghandi knew about Jesus during his life in Britain and South Africa.

BooZker, on Apr 29 2006, 12:58 PM, said:

Another thing is they don't do as they say EVER. Do not kill? I could come up with over a million times christians have killed. A TRUE chrisian would never kill. Even in war they should not kill. They should not join the army then. This is one thing that people never have a good argument for. Because there is none. And also our divorce rate will exceed people who stay together in 3 years (in the USA) and it just so happens that Christians are the majority here.

If christians, jews, muslims, all follow there beliefs this world would be a great place. And i think there was a Jesus at sometime. I also think there was a Buddha. Because of these lies i have been told it makes me hard to believe in any religion....

Believe me , while there are killing but not as before Christianity. Read and think about the life in Europe before Christianity. What was between tribes in Africa. What Did Persian or Roman Empire. What Did Jankis Khan, etc...

See how the Christian World helped in Crisis as Tsunami or Earthquakes in non-christian countries. Think how Christian went to help Muslims in Bosnia and Cosove against Yugoslavia...

[matto]

Me? I'm a Jew. I've been searching for a religion for a while, I went to Church from before I could remember until about 4th grade, but it wasn't always the "church church." I was a UU for a few years, but that didn't cut it for my family and me, but I didn't know why at the time. I was too little to understand what's what, I just went to go to sunday school and play with my friends...

Honestly though, back then I didn't really have a choice as to where I went. I've been Jewish now since I was about 9 (I'm 14 now). It's done its thing for me. The reason for my being at ease and accepting of this religion has to do with who leads the religion. I participate in two, I'm not sure what to call them, lets call them "sub_faiths."

My actual synagouge is a renewal synagouge (the most "liberal" kind of Jewdaism). I still belong here, and I have belonged here for a long time. It is because of this place that I enjoy Jewdaism, and got into Jewdaism. The Rabbi is probably what did it for me first, though. Rabbi Michael Lerner has an interesting history, and a PhD in Psychology (and a doctorate in something else that I can't remember, but its not that important to this). When he lead services, he's pause after a while and do a spiritual [almost] medititation. If it was a special holiday, he'd adjust the meditation for something specific, if it wasn't, he would simply have us think about things. Now I don't know what did this for me, but whatever happened happened, and I was stuck. But this wasn't even it! This Rabbi went one and one with almost ALL of my political beliefs, except there was a difference. He's a co-chair of a big community/organization that focuses on changing the world, while I'm just a 14 year old kid. Wowcoool =D

And then there was another thing that made me enjoy Jewdaism. After starting to enjoy it at the synagouge I mentioned above, I started to want to reach out to other Jewish kids like myself. You see, the _one_ (well, maybe there are more [there are]) problem with the synagouge I belong to is that there are hardly any kids. So, I knew that two of my friends from school were Jewish, so I talked to them and got to know them better. I started going to the religious/hebrew school there, and we became best friends. And then, on top of being able to learn about Jewdaism and stuff with my new best friends, we joined Kadima (a Jewish Youth Group for preteens), and then after 8th grade we got upgraded to USY (which is THE BOMB. It's a Jewish youth group for teens. We party so hard.)

So while my synagouge makes Jewdaism very meaningful and spiritual, my friends' synagouge makes it hella fun.

And now, to further question my beliefs, why do I believe in Jewdaism? You know what, there are some things in the religion that I do not believe in. But that is allowed. Jewdaism promotes questioning The Torah, and studying it, and ARGUING about it. Jewdaism has lots of beliefs and/or laws that are disputed every day. It's dynamic! Lots of laws have been modified from the uber panel of Rabbis in Israel to accomodate changes that have been made in the real world. So I enjoy Jewdaism because it is different for every person.

Another thing that just popped into my head is that I believe in science. I read Stephen Hawking's work and respect it, but I also believe it. I learn about evolution, and since it makes sense to me (and I can think of no way to disprove it), I believe it. And I'm allowed to believe it.

All of these reasons listed above are why I am a Jew, and why I am proud of my Jewdaism.

P.S. I found it interesting to read all of the posts above mine, thanks for taking the time to post them =D

[gaurdro]

I am a non-traditionalist Hindu. I believe this because it doesn't embody the as actual beings looking down on the Earth but treats them as forces. the underlying belief is that you should be the best person you can and don't need a gift from these higher beings to achieve it. it is also generally accepted that you don't have to believe all of the religion to be a part. it generally is required you read a few holy texts. in my opinion any person wishing to consider themselves Hindu should also know how to meditate.

[terminal2k]

i personally dislike religion, if there was one "true" religion i believer that a god would do something to make it known (like the stories in the bible), all religion seems to bring in this world is pain and suffering. my belief is best summed up by something from the de la soul song "held down" which has a line that goes "And as my daughter walks in and chooses to ask Why are all those people sleeping on the floor all covered in red, I told her they were looking for god but found religion instead"

[amit nigam]

I m a hindu and i love my religion. the points because of which i love hinduism is because it is one of the most easy going religions. it isn't written anywhere that if you dont believe in hinduism then you will nit get heaven and all those kind of things. in fact if you dont want to pray for months or years then also its ok.
what hinduism teaches is that you must love your fellow beings whether they are hindu or of any religion and also that all people are equal for god whether of any religion. i think that is one of the reasons why there are so few people who are in the work of converting people to hinduism because hinduism doesnt teaches one to bias people on the basis of religion.
i think thats why you will never find any person starting a topic like this, Is hinduism the best religion, like one of the person on this forum did. he started the topic that is christianity the best religion. we will not start these kind of topics because hinduism teaches us to believe in the equality of god.

Jai Shri Krishna.

[BooZker]

Quote

Believe me , while there are killing but not as before Christianity. Read and think about the life in Europe before Christianity. What was between tribes in Africa. What Did Persian or Roman Empire. What Did Jankis Khan, etc...

I'm going to try not to be to harsh about this, but have you heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Probably not or else you would have mentioned it.

Or do you remember when they were burning witches? They were christians.

Hmm i don't know how what you said is true. It is a very ignorant thing to say.

[Cerebral Stasis]

The problem I have with most religions is that it teaches intolerance and causes followers to become stubborn. For example, if an extraterrestrial race landed on Earth in a flying saucer and publically broadcast that they were the creators of the Human race, and we were just an experiment of the complexities of a combination of reason and emotion in one creature, many religious people would claim it was false or some demons trying to decieve, even if the answer was right before them, literally telling them what was real and what wasn't. Religions are liferafts for people to cling to, but at a certain point, one must let go and swim for the passing ferry so that one can be towed aboard and taken to safety.

[truefusion]

Quote

even if the answer was right before them, literally telling them what was real and what wasn't.

Unfortunately, anyone with a mind can distinguish whether these aliens really did make us. You'd have to make them prove it. If they can't even make a fly, then how could they make a universe? And how are they able to fly within it? A true creator of a universe would not be able to fit in the universe.

[BooZker]

Quote

There are many great people in history [whatever right or wrong] but they are not Jesus and some of them didn't follow him. It was the responsibility of disciples and others to tell all the world about Jesus and they did and lost their life in that mission..They have they trace in history. People who heard about Jesus and rejected him they will be responsible for that matter. Ghandi knew about Jesus during his life in Britain and South Africa.

As i said before in another post if someone came to me and was trying to get me to convert i would be very angry. I would be angry in many ways.

1. Your telling my belief is BS
2. Your telling me to believe something other then what i have been brought up with for many years.
3. You came into my country uninvited!
4. They never asked you to come, but only for help to survive with food and water and you bring this with you?


There are more reasons, but i wont go into them.

I want to ask you a question about this too. If someone came to you and tried to get you to believe in scientology for example what would you say? Would you ever convert? Probably not so why do you expect them to change?

And what do you mean responsible? You know this is exactly what pisses me off. Your saying, which is true, that if you don't like me (Jesus) burn in hell. I thought Jesus was caring. If i was right i thought he loved people no matter what they were like? Obviously not, that's for sure. See it's this say one thing, but it means something totaly different.

Also i never said Bloody Mary in a way such as "I wish that bloody mary would go away" I said it the exact way the PRIEST said that if you ever said that Mary would come and haunt you.

[truefusion]

Actually, if you fail to say that Jesus is lord, and through him, we are saved. That's not gonna condemn you. It's not sin for not saying that. Many Christians will tell you otherwise, but that's not the case. Unfortunately, this has become a debate, and should be placed in the proper section.

[Moolkye]

I am a Christian, and I believe in God completely. I make mistakes, a lot of them, but each time I repent and strive to be a better Christian.

At times though I am irritated at those who do not believe in God, but believe in a total random selection of situations to put us where we are today. I can't agree with that.

I was raised Catholic. I didn't stay in it, because it was so boring, and I didn't think I had to answer to a priest for my sins. What connection to God does he have that I don't? Then I started hating everything and was agnostic for a while. But then all of a sudden, in my twenties, my eyes were opened, by a song. "Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus". When I heard it and looked around the yard, I realized that there was more to life than I could see. God is all around us, and he created everything.

The big bang theory? Pancakes compared to God
Evolution? Died with Darwin (And he believed in God)
Other Gods? There is only ONE true God.
Science? One says the world is billions of years old, the other says billions upon billions...

I believe in God, because it is a better explaination then all of those other theories. And I have seen how his work is done in my life and others.

[truefusion]

Many people don't know this, but the Big Bang Theory actually supports I.D. (intelligent design). Because, if God wasn't behind it, all matter would be obliterated by anti-matter. Of course, this by no means mean that God actually did do some kind of big bang to create the universe. But, just something to keep in mind.

[BooZker]

Quote

I believe in God, because it is a better explaination then all of those other theories. And I have seen how his work is done in my life and others.

Yep just like back in he Rain God and the Sun God ages. For stuff that can not be explained you make a god for it. It is true through out history. Remember when they thought the Earth was the center of the universe because God put it there? Well they have know shown that to be false. There IS stuff that is unexplained, but we shouldnt be making up Gods for it. Listen how stupid it sounds. I support you in believing in Gods and Jesus, but by no means should you NOT look into things and come to a conclusion until it is PROVED. You have no proof that God made the Earth so your actually behind the scientists. Same with Evolution. They have more theories that support it then Christians (Catholic church has accepted the belief in evolution because of all the strong findings.) have to NOT support it. If i went today and said, "you murdered someone" I would have to show SOME evidence wouldnt I?

Guess not.

And at least truefusion has looked into it and found what does not support that theory. You just hear something and go along with it.

Edited by BooZker, 09 May 2006 - 08:48 PM.

[Moolkye]

Well i believe it because that is what the bible says. And in any religion you need to have faith. You believe in gravity though you can not see it. You see the results of it.... therefore you believe in it.
Same thing

[BooZker]

Quote

Well i believe it because that is what the bible says. And in any religion you need to have faith. You believe in gravity though you can not see it. You see the results of it.... therefore you believe in it.
Same thing

No it's not the same thing at all. Gravity can be proven and there are not millions of different types of gravity. People don't go to door trying to sell gravity. Gravity is a horrible example. Plus gravity has results that happen instantly and can be guessed based on hypothesis. Name 1 way you can see instant findings that there is God? You can't so therefore it's nothing like gravity.

[truefusion]

Quote

Name 1 way you can see instant findings that there is God?

Um, look up at the sky, look at the oceans, look at the ground, look at the planets, look at everything. (Ok, so it's more than one way ). Man didn't create any of this. We can't even make a fly. Everything we've "created" is cause we put one thing together with another thing, and named it something. Either way, it's impossible to prove that God doesn't exist. And it's extremely easy to prove that He does.

[BooZker]

Quote

Um, look up at the sky, look at the oceans, look at the ground, look at the planets, look at everything. (Ok, so it's more than one way ). Man didn't create any of this. We can't even make a fly. Everything we've "created" is cause we put one thing together with another thing, and named it something. Either way, it's impossible to prove that God doesn't exist. And it's extremely easy to prove that He does.

Huh? That makes no sence. I said tell me how you know there is a God. The sky could have been created from some kind of star exploding or something. You have no idea how it was created. That whole reply i typed was about how he said its like gravity. And you drug his stupidty down with you. Gravity can be explained, God cannot. The sky shows no proof of God. But an apple falling down because of the gravitational pull between the moon and earth show proof of gravity. Whats your proof? Wait let me guess. Just faith?

Then there is no proof just faith. Faith should be kept seperate from proof because with just faith nothing becomes explained. If it werent for science and finding a damn thing out we would still think the Earth is flat and in the middle of the universe.

Edited by BooZker, 12 May 2006 - 07:42 AM.

[kasm]

BooZker, on May 12 2006, 05:41 PM, said:

Huh? That makes no sence. I said tell me how you know there is a God. The sky could have been created from some kind of star exploding or something. You have no idea how it was created. That whole reply i typed was about how he said its like gravity. And you drug his stupidty down with you. Gravity can be explained, God cannot. The sky shows no proof of God. But an apple falling down because of the gravitational pull between the moon and earth show proof of gravity. Whats your proof? Wait let me guess. Just faith?

Then there is no proof just faith. Faith should be kept seperate from proof because with just faith nothing becomes explained. If it werent for science and finding a damn thing out we would still think the Earth is flat and in the middle of the universe.

I. I am scientist and researcher for 45 years and thousands has graduated under me in many countries. I tell you all what we in science do is to study, explore, put models and suggest hypothesis to what is going on. You talked lot about the gravity and why it is but you didn't explain why it the way is it. Why the gravity constant is what is equal. I have studied Newton Mechanics and Einstein General and Special Relativity. You said in other place that "Gravity can be proven and there are not millions of different types of gravity." but in fact there are because every planets in every system and every galaxy has its different gravity. The big bang theory is one of hypothesis to explain the universe. Do you know that there are many other competing hypotheses. Do you know how many previous hypothesis to explain optics until currently the Electromagnetic" theory .

II. Who believe in God doesn't need exact proof. That why it called belief or faith. But any belief has bases. You by yourself said "The sky could have been created from some kind of star exploding or something. " that is your belief without any proof. You used "could " for uncertainty. The same who believe in big bang haven't exact proof but it is their belief. Expanding the universe is not a proof but a phenomena needs to be accomedated one way or another.

III. As the existence of the electricity, magnetism and gravity, depend on their sign and effects, the believer in God are do that because the SIGNS OF GOD DESIGN IN NATURE . Believers in God do that because they think deeply and put in consideration:

1- Until now we couldn't create a tiny cell from scratch.

2- Until now and after about 50 years in space , we didn't visit in the universe except Earth's Sputnik, the moon. There are 7 and now 9 planets in our Sun System. Every star is similar to the Sun has its planets, and every planet has its moon or moons. Moreover group of star constitute Galaxy and Galaxies constitute,... etc etc....

3- Why our planet the earth has all facilities to survive, the atmosphere protect it, the oxygen and Carbon balances, the gravity, The Sun and the moon to give it light and warm and stability, etc etc

4- Our body systems why they are the way they are. The miracles of Heart, the miracles of the blood, the respiratory system, Nerve system, the defense imune system, the hormones, our eyes, ears, kidneys, livers, stomach, tongue ...and our reproduction system. How the pregnancy happen and how the body works when pregnancy happen. How the mother start to produce milk before giving birth etc etc.. Why these months in womb.etc etc..

5- Why we die if we in water without support while the fish and other water creation die if they left the water.

6- the cycle of reproductions in plants or some animal creations as the butterflies,...

7- there is another pressure in plant than animal.

8- Ants and Bees kingdom.

9- The system and characteristic of Camel to make him to survive and walk in deserts and walks on sands.

10- The immigration of birds and fish by thousands of miles.

11- We breath Oxygen and produce Carbon Oxide and the Plants use Carbon Oxide to produce to us Oxygen

12- The cycle of water , clouds, rain, fall on mountains to make rivers, evaporation of sea and oceans water to make clouds,

etc etc... there are million not one sign

Soon I will finalize this topic and post some in the Forum and put all in my site.