31 replies to this topic

[Prox]

Disproving Mormonism

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I recently viewed a video on The Book Of Mormonism vs. The Bible... here are my notes:


THE BOOK OF MORMONISM:
- The history of America does not match the geography described in the BOM.

- NO records of Israel ever show that the Lamanites were ever a tribe in Israel, but EVERY tribe talked about in the bible ( Benjamites, Phillistines, etc. ) are all backed up by records.

- It is impossible that there was a WHOLE other tribe in Israel that set off in a boat journey (on ancient row boats) to America would leave behind no records or archaeology. Every tribe and city talked about in the bible have been found to exist by archaeologists, why would this one be any different?

- For example, cities talked about in the Bible like the City of David and Bet Sheba STILL EXIST, and have kept the same names.

- The BOM names cities and tells the geography of them, but no city like the ones described in the BOM have ever been found.

- If you want to go to cities named in the Bible like Jerusalem, you can! But if you want to go to Zarahemla (a city in the BOM), you can't because it never existed, and scientists have found NO evidence, geography, or records EVER showing that it did.

- The BOM says that there were HORSES and ELEPHANTS and STEEL in America in ancient times. But, its a commonly known fact that horses were brought by the Spanish in the 1700's. Steel wasn't invented yet, and elephants definiteley weren't in America during those times either! It's just that Joseph Smith (THE PERSON WHO FABRICATED THIS FICTIONAL BOOK) wasn't knowledgable enough to create a setting in America that matched ancient times.

- The BOM describes plants, animals, and metals that DIDN'T exist in America during the time the story of the Lamanites supposedly took place.
-In the BOM it is said that the Nephites were "An Empire of Writing and Literature", yet they left NO records of themselves?

- They have found original pieces of The Bible, but NO original copies of the BOM have been found.
- Joseph Smith supposedly translated the bible from a language called "Reformed Egyptian" to "English". But, he only knew ENGLISH (according to people who knew him.)

- Oh, and also, Reformed Egyptian is a FAKE language that never existed... HE MADE IT UP! Any Scientist that specializes in languages will tell you that no such thing exists or existed.

- The BOM describes coins that they used to use in Ancient America, but nobody has ever found coins in ALL of the American Continents (South and North) that outdate the Europeans.

- Unlike in the bible... it describes coins, and archaeologists have found over 90,000 coins alike the ones described in the bible.

- We've found archaeology and evidence of SMALL battles that were described in the bible, but have found no evidence of ANY battles described in the Book Of Mormon.

- One battle in the BOM supposedly took 2 million lives. That is a HUGE battle, but no evidence was ever found that that existed. But in the bible it describes battles as small as 600 people that have been PROVEN to have happened by Archaeology.

- When they find places like "Jerusalem" that existed in Bible times, Christians are eager to dig them up, and when they do, they find TONS of archaeology... but when Mormons find places they CLAIM to be ancient Mormon cities, they never dig them up, because they fear that they'll find nothing. (Why do they fear that? NOTHING has ever been found before!)

- Mormons refuse to excavate the Hill-Kamora (Spell check).

- The book of Mormon has 1000's of grammatical and geographical and physical mistakes.... all that have been CORRECTED by the board of Mormons who oversee the BOM. Unlike the Bible which hasn't ever been MODIFIED because of mistakes.

- AND this is funny... you know how Mormons will always TELL you they ARE Christians?: The PRESIDENT of the MORMON CHURCH is on video/audio saying:
" We do not believe in the Christian Christ. "

BTW --- Most of my Mormon spellings are wrong, since I only watched a video. So I tried to sound the words out best I could.

[Jeune]

I'm a Catholic and I don't know much about the Mormons but I say you make a very compelling argument. As a matter of interest,Prox, do you have anything against Mormons?

[arnz]

I'm also a catholic, although non practising, and to be honest I dont know much about the mormons. But i'll have to agree that the argument is compelling in parts but not knowing much, I cant really say whether if I agree or not.

[Prox]

Jeune, on Aug 7 2006, 09:07 AM, said:

I'm a Catholic and I don't know much about the Mormons but I say you make a very compelling argument. As a matter of interest,Prox, do you have anything against Mormons?

No. Why would I have anything against Mormons? Some of the nicest people I know are LDS members. I'm a christian and I just want to spread the word about false religions.

[Mich]

Quote

I recently viewed a video on The Book Of Mormonism vs. The Bible...

Just who produced this video? I would be interested in obtaining a copy. My understanding of the BOM, and I quote from its title, is Another Testament of Jesus Christ. The BOM does not vs. the Bible.

Quote

The book of Mormon has 1000's of grammatical and geographical and physical mistakes.... all that have been CORRECTED by the board of Mormons who oversee the BOM. Unlike the Bible which hasn't ever been MODIFIED because of mistakes.

Where did you gather this information; source please? How many translations and interpretations of the bible have there been printed since the original? Certainly you don't presume that no mistakes were made and/or corrected, ever in the history of bible printing. After all, interpretations are indeed corrections of the printed word to fit the writer's beliefs, are they not?

I found an interesting article right here on Trap17 about Mormonism. Although this post questions their historic background, the article I found speaks of their beliefs. I think rather than be caught up with details about whether their historic claims are factual or not, the more important factor is what they teach and practice morally.
Report on Mormonism by a Catholic

[iGuest]

Mich - Do you believe that the end justifies the means? Because if your religion is based on a lie how "true" of a church can it be?

You said "the more important factor is what they teach and practice morally." Not true, if you were a Christian you would know that your actions are not as important as you beliefs;

Since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; they are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. (Romans 4.3)

Your belief in Christ is all you have, what you teach and practice morally is a result of that belief. So if your beliefs are flawed and based on lies then isn�t everything you teach and practice flawed also?

[iGuest]

I have been studying as much as I can on the beliefs of Mormons because my two young daughters are in a Mormon home beyond my control. This is the first I have found on the archaeological and geographical history of the Book of Mormon. What I don't understand is why so many Mormons continue to believe in something that has been proven time and time again to be incorrect.

Please pray that God will teach my children His truth. And place His angels over them to protect them from this spiritual warfare we face at this time.

I am an avid beleiver in Christ, but have been doing a lot of studying to make sure I am not missing something like the Jews are.

So far I am finding that I am not.

Thank you!!!
God bless you!!!

-Bridgett

[iGuest]

I suggest that everyone at least visit carm.org, it is a great site with a lot of information on the mormon faith, and other cults and pagan practices and some very good insite on Christianity

-stelvin

[iGuest]

Wow :) Thats amazing. And thank you for doing this!

-reply by Elizabeth

[iGuest]

Another thing....
Disproving Mormonism

Another thing that you can really disprove mormon by is something they believe themselves. The BOM was written by old boy a few hundred years ago because he claims that God the Father and Jesus Christ came down in the flesh and instructed him to write it, the mormons believe this. Now, for starters, the mormons also believe the bible, in which it says that we would instantly die if we saw God the Father because he cannot be around sin. Another thing is in the bible, when Jesus was talking for the last time after he had risen from the grave, before he rose into heaven, he said "There are many rooms in my Father's house. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you? And if I am going away to prepare a place for you, I will come back again and welcome you into my presence, so that you may be where I am" John 14:2-3

Now in those verses Jesus is saying to Christians, straight forward, I am leaving now to prepare a place for you in heaven BUT I will come again and you will come back with me so that we can be together. Ok? So Jesus left, he's coming again BUT when he does he will take us with him. Ok so if Jesus came back already WHAT THE HECK ARE WE STILL DOING HERE?!? :D


-reply by Stephen

[iGuest]

Anyone who argues or fights about theology or "BLIND FAITH" is ridiculous... Most people are sheep... Admit it... nobody knows anything... Get it 

-reply by philip

[iGuest]

Vintage Anti-Mormon CommentsDisproving Mormonism

I don't expect my comment to be posted because I am Mormon, but I was disturbed by your bullets arguing the Book of Mormon...Not because they dispute it's authenticity, but because you are stating supposed facts about Mormonism that simply are not fact...As a matter of fact, most Mormons would read your claims about the Book of Mormon and say, "where did he get this from???  We don't believe this." This applies to all of your bullets.  For example, your second bullet states:

"NO records of Israel ever show that the Lamanites were ever a tribe in Israel, but EVERY tribe talked about in the bible ( Benjamites, Phillistines, etc. ) are all backed up by records.- NO records of Israel ever show that the Lamanites were ever a tribe in Israel, but EVERY tribe talked about in the bible ( Benjamites, Phillistines, etc. ) are all backed up by records."

Mormon doctrine does not/has not ever claimed that "Lamanites" were a tribe of Israel.  It is obvious you have not read the Book of Mormon because you would immediately know this.  The fact is, Lehi, who left Jerusalem with his family to the Americas was a Jew.  He was a descendant from one of the tribes of Israel - obviously.  The term Lamanites did not even exist until many generations after Lehi's death when a portion of his descendants decided to call themselves that term.

Now that the fact of Mormon doctrine has been established, how can you claim that Mormon's claim that "Lamanites" are one of the twelve tribes? Like many anti-Mormons, this is simply taking a Mormon claim and twisting its truth. 

If I see that you post my comment, then I can tell that you are legitimately trying to understand and debate Mormon doctrine.  I will then take the time to address/refute each bullet. But my guess is that this will never be posted because it refutes your twisted claims. This is very unfortunate because as  a Christian, you will claim to be in search of or to have found truth, and yet your website is a web of deceit in which the people you attack are not even clearly understood or even worse, consciously misrepresented.

Whether you agree with Mormonism or not, how can you in good conscience post these things that are far from the truth?  I hope you will reconsider. I will follow up on this website and see if you have the courage to post this.  If you have the truth, then obviously you have nothing to fear...Correct?  It should set you free, right?

-reply by Caballerokid

[iGuest]

Replying to iGuestSo, what evidence is there that the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, etc. Are factual?There really is no evidence for validity, and it's time we got serious about Jesus, and reject all false teaching. Also, regarding the "established doctrine"...There have been numerous established doctrines that have been shown to be false throughout history: bloodletting, flat earth, handwashing necessity, earth as center of universe, and others have been "established doctrine" or teaching and have obviously been shown to be false--as has the BOM.

[iGuest]

Stephen said "the bible, in which it says that we would instantly die if we saw God the Father because he cannot be around sin."

Does that not disprove all christian religions? is it not correct that in the Bible God appeared before many men who were not instantly killed by his presence?

[iGuest]

to the anonymous post - God never appeared before men in his glory,  he appeared in only small fractions, I.E. The burning bush. He always appeared as Jesus or as an angel. In the new testament Jesus appears to men as a man. We can fall at the feet of Jesus and feel no shame, we can look into his eyes and fear not of death, but of everlasting life. There is only one thing that God Hates sin (Psalm 5:4-6, Psalm 11:5, Psalm 45:7, Leviticus 20:23{from The Lord himself} and many more.) so therefore he cannot have a sinful folly in his presence, for he will cast it out. God, The father, was to rid the world of all sin, but jesus, the son, tells him "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do. - Luke 23:34

[iGuest]

Dude, seriously...Disproving Mormonism

I must start off by saying a few things:1) My father's side of the family is...*shudders* Mormon.2) I am decidedly spiritual, and do not represent any religion.So, iGuest, you want to argue the remaining points of interest above?  Please do.  I would love to see which ancient artifacts you can pull out of your mountainous Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City.  I suppose you're going to tell me that you have the Golden Tablets that Joseph Smith found, right?  No?  Why not?  What did he do with them?  Really?  You believe that?  Yeah, and I turned water into wine.  Okay, so I didn't really turn water into wine, but I sure as hell turned it into Kool-Aid a few times.  Miraculous?  I think not. As far as any of the other bullets you wanted to argue, it's irrelevant.  I have met more child molesting, drugged out, undereducated, ignorant, arrogant, self-righteous Mormons than any other group of people in my life.  The only attributing intelligent Mormons that exist are showcased like a purebred Shih Tzu in the media (the Virgin Empire guy, that douche from Jeopardy that kept winning), and the rest of your deplorable sub-human-standard population rots in the festering fake little world you make for yourselves.I especially love the "Open Door Mormons."  What's that you ask?  Well, I have Mormon family, remember from above?  A prime example is my uncle, The Douche.  The Douche would commonly have the Elders over for intricate detailed discussions about the Lord and his great plan for the Mormon religion.  The Missionaries would stop by and treat themselves to one of the CAFFEINE FREE sodas in the fridge.  You'd never see my uncle with a drink in his hand, a cigarette, or a cup of coffee (else your soul be damned!), at least while any of them were around.  The clergymen leave, however, and the bottom fridge drawer opens to the stash of beer, the cigarettes and ashtray come out, the cocaine, maybe some of his painkillers, oh, and then maybe he'd go molest his step daughter just to top off the evening.  As soon as that door closed, he was truly Mormon.  Truly as sadistic as the bands of  Mormons that traipsed through the rural south after the Civil War kidnapping, murdering, pillaging, and raping anything that wouldn't convert willingly.  It's sad.  They blamed it on Native Americans, and still deny it to this day.  Is it any wonder my uncle denies molesting his step daughter?  His religion taught him to.  

Hell, the Mormons didn't accept African descendants to be PART of their church in whole until the 1970's!  They think Native Americans are descendants of Israelites.  Just like other Christians, Mormons don't believe in DNA. 

So,  I can't say enough about how I hate Mormons, but really I'm an equal opportunity hater.  I hate Christianity because even though your stuff is BASED on a guy who probably did exist, you take it into the fairy tale realm and truly believe this guy was the son of God, died for YOUR "sins", walked on water, turned water into wine, came back from the dead, and plans to come back to Earth again.  Sorry, but I have a brain.  I like to think logically.  I like to have solid facts, and things that are tactile, manageable, and real.  Resurrection is impossible.  Turning water into wine... See the Kool-Aid comment above.  Walking on water...  No but I sure do like surfing. 

Look people, the point here is that no one should be telling anyone else that their made up bull**** story about God is worse than their own made up bull**** story about God.  All of you need to realize that that's what being a bigot  is.  That's what being racist is.  You're trying to say that just because your religion is older and has crap that's been written on scrolls a couple thousand years ago it makes your bull**** story more real, and it doesn't.  It makes the religion more real, not the fantasy stories behind it.  How would we all be living today if Homer's Odyssey were taken as a literal representation of the world?  Scientology?  See, you can get more insane than the Mormons.  

Think about it, people.  You need to stop and think before you just rip on other people for their beliefs.  I bet if you could handle listening to someone else about the reasons and beliefs they have and why, you'd find that people in your own religion differ from you, and a hell of a lot of other people will disagree with you. Learn to shut the f*ck up sometimes and maybe we'll all be able to get along someday.

-reply by The Reverand

[networker]

I"ve had enough of the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witness. They are are always predicting
some great catastrophe or the end of the world and it never happens.
Not only that,they think they can just walk up to you, or knock on your door pushing the
booklets they have, and if you don't want one of them they have no time for you.
I believe that God is a nice,normal type who appreciates civility, even if it's just small talk about the weather,
rather than pressing this propaganda on people.

[nolan]

This post seems to follow the very widespread notion (and fallacy) that it is possible to disprove a religion/ethnicity, whether it be Mormonism, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Paganism, or whatever else. The problem is that a religion is an institution, an organization for a body of believers of a particular faith. It's no more possible to disprove religion than it is to disprove Microsoft or Wal-mart. You can attempt to disprove particular notions or ideas within a set of beliefs, but to claim to disprove a religion as a whole is just foolishness. Besides, if one is at all convinced of their own beliefs, they wouldn't care to try to disprove those of another without any overwhelming push to do so. Far too many individuals believe it is their purpose in life to set people straight for their "inferior" notions, when in fact their own beliefs often have just as many unanswered questions, loopholes, or other irrationalities as the one they're attempting to "disprove".

[iGuest]

Some points you could use plus a thanksDisproving MormonismReplying to Prox First, I wanted to thank you for summing it all up onto one website. I had actually already came to the same conclusions through my own research before I ever got to your website. I prayed to be shown the truth and that is what I believe I was shown (even before your website). Second, something you didn't find, or maybe you did but didn't include, were some ways to know for certain whether false prophets teachings were false. These stipulations were that it had to be recognized in Israel, I am leaning to officially recognized, as stated in Ezekiel 13:9 and that it had to have the spirit of God, 1 John 4: 1-4. 2nd Peter Chapter 2:1 is also a good verse to use in this case. Two mormons came to my house the other day and I visited with them this week and am suppose to again the next week. Maybe I can get them back on track, even though I didn't even know what that track was myself. God works in mysterious ways. I now have 9 official religions (mainly catholic) that were recognized by Israel and have the spirit of God. This quest has even had me cast off Lutherens, Baptists, and other such churches for they do not meet the criteria set in the Bible. I believe with my whole heart that if it is not supported in the Bible, it is false.-feedback by Cassandra

[iGuest]

Book of MormonDisproving Mormonism

I am going to invent a religion like Joseph Smith.  It will be a fraud used only to inflate my own self importance and wallet.  Thankfully, as the writer below stated nobody will ever be able to prove it a fraud.  No matter how utterly ridiculous it sounds.

-reply by John Schwart

[GarySerotta]

The translation of the golden plates of the Book of Mormon gives a record of two distinct groups of people that immigrated to the American continent; the first being after the dispersion of the inhabitants from the Tower of Babel in Babylon in the Near East and the second group from Jerusalem in 589 BC. In the book of Ether of the Book of Mormon, the first group, called Jaredites, traveled from Babylon to the Pacific coast of China, built barges that quoted from the book “were light upon the water”, the length of a tree, and completely enclosed and water tight. For air, there were two holes, one in the top and the other in the bottom, which were opened as needed for ventilation. Light was provided for the entombed travelers by two illuminating stones placed in each barge.
An estimated 32 men, women and children, divided themselves amongst the 8 barges, floated, pitched, and yawed 344 days across the Pacific to the American continent. During the crossing of the tempest Pacific Ocean, not one barge was lost and no one died of hypercapnia, a condition of too much carbon dioxide accumulating in the blood stream. Being confined inside an airtight barge with only limited ventilation would have been an ideal breeding ground for the malady. Any sailor who has brazenly ventured onto the Pacific Ocean knows its awesome power. Sailors know of the unimaginable anger and mountainous waves, capped by white sheets of blowing water, that pound and toss any ship unfortunately enough to be on surface when the storms rage. Imagine being inside a walnut shell, with a hole in the top and bottom and floating upon the Pacific Ocean. Where would you store your food? How would you prepare the food? Where would you sleep? How would you remain in place during the storms? Most importantly with only a hole in the top and a hole in the bottom for ventilation, where would you urinate or defecate? This just one of the implausible stories from the Book of Mormon.

[Bikerman]

man of god, on 21 June 2010 - 06:52 PM, said:

Mormons claim to believe in the Bibles teachings as well as the book of mormon. They say that the the book of mormon is just what happened after the Bible. But how can they believe in both?

It always amuses me when the religious start bickering about who's 'truth' is the real 'truth'.
Of course Mormonism is built on a load of old nonsense..do you really have to think about it? Tribes of Israel in the US? Golden plates which nobody is allowed to see? You couldn't write it as fiction because nobody would believe it.

If you really think your debating style is so good and your points so convincing then please try me for size - I've been debating the cream of religious apologists (Jesuits) for decades. I'm willing to be convinced, but you have to provide evidence, not assertion.

And just for the smug Christians -
Much of Christianity is also myth and invention, so Christians should be wary of throwing stones.
And please don't give me the normal guff about the bible being accurate - it is so full of holes that I'm surprised it isn't used more widely as a strainer. I could take it apart in detail if you like and show you the logical and textual contradictions, the obviously invented parts, the parts that are obviously stolen from other religions...and so on.

Here's just 3 simple questions to ask yourself, before attacking the veracity of other beliefs:
1. Where was Jesus born? Who is right and who made it up? Matthew and Luke? Paul? Mark? John? Here's a clue - the nativity is clearly an invention, since the Romans didn't conduct any census around that time and in any case never required men to return to their home town to register - that notion is completely bonkers.
(The same question applies to the date, as well as the place. The reported dates do not hold water).

2. Matthew (1:2-17) and Luke (3:23-38) both give the genealogy of Joseph. Both completely different. Which one is right?

3. Why is Jesus not mentioned outside the new testament? Why do none of the contemporary historians even mention him? Seneca, Philo, Plutarch - not a word about him - and they all wrote extensively about the goings on in the region at that time. Pliny the elder, Damis, Justus? Nary a mention....odd that! You have to wait for Tacitus in 110CE to see a mention - and even that is about Christians, not Jesus, and is widely believed to be a later Christian forgery....

Edited by Bikerman, 13 August 2010 - 08:17 PM.