26 replies to this topic

[Cool_Freaker]

Not in the world, but in the series. Here is my synopsis:

Oh yeah, it's kinda spoiler intensive, so if you have not yet read the books, you might not want to continue reading.

Hmm, wonder if this board has spoiler tags?

Hidden

Book 1. Killed a teacher at the the school he attended.

Arguments against: He was preventing the capture of the stone, and He was a dark wizard anyway.

Arguments for: If Harry did not persue the stone in the first place, it would not have needed prevent the capture!

Even if the enemy you are killing is evil, they should be held alive for questioning.

Book 4: Killed Cedric.

Arguments against: Harry did not kill Cedric, Voldemort killed Cedric.

Arguments for: Harry insisted Cedric on touching the cup with him, which led to Cedrics ultimate death. If Harry had taken the cup himself, Cedric, though losing the game, would have preserved his life.

Book 5: Killed his own godfather, Sirius Black, through ignoring superiors.

Arguments against: Harry did not know that Sirius Black was not in danger.

Arguments for: Dumbledore himself requested Occulmency lessons for Harry for his own benefit. First he refuses what the headmaster asks, then goes on to endanger the life of fellow students.

Notice from truefusion:

Fixed spoiler tag.

[kkrizka]

Nah, I think Harry Potter is just a normal wizard with nothing special about him. Only that he survived that curse because his MOM (not himself) protected him. This makes him very arrogant and feel special. It's this that makes him do stupid things because he thinks that he is invincible and above everyone else.

[Albus Dumbledore]

the spoiler tags are new tags and they are i believe

 [hide=yourname1][/hide]

now onto my post:

Book1:
Harry may have wanted to get the stone, but as dumbledore said at the end of the book he said that someone who wanted to get the stone but not use it could get it and only them. So, essentally, he did not want to use it, he just wanted to get it to keep it out of the hands of voldemort, and make it more difficult for voldemort to come back even though he did in the end. but he will be dead soon (me hopes)

Book 4:
Harry did not know that the Cup was a portkey, he was just being a kind guy and basicly repaying cedric for all of the help that he has helped him with in the tasks, even though they basicly evenend out telling eachother how to figure out what the neddxt task was, or just straight up telling the other person. I am sure if he had known he would have had dumbledore touch the cup at the same time as harry instead of cedric, thay way dumbledore could have kept wormtail from bringing back voldemort! evil batard. hehe

Book5:
Yeah, there i can agree, he disobeyed a dirrect order and went to the ministry of magic anyways, and then sirius came to save him and fell behinf the veil, i myself believe that there is some way in the magical world to bring sirius back but then again, it is just a story and it can be changed any way... if you know what i mean.

Edited by Albus Dumbledore, 03 October 2006 - 04:23 AM.

[Cool_Freaker]

Meh, all the cool characters are dying off...

On a completely unrelated note, you live about 3 miles from me.

[Albus Dumbledore]

Cool_Freaker, on Oct 2 2006, 09:51 PM, said:

Meh, all the cool characters are dying off...

On a completely unrelated note, you live about 3 miles from me.

i know, seriously she had better not kill harry off.. i will scream! although bad endings are awsome too.

[randomdood]

well i haven't read them but i have heard he becomes a real brat in the later books, you can even see he is a real twit in the first few,

[heavensounds]

I agree with kkrizka! Harry Potter is just someone saved by his mother and that made him something special. I think that the whole thing about harry is not sufficient to make him such a special wizard. I read the books so that someone will not say that i haven't read all of the books. How he is made special, that bothers me - the writer told us yeah harry potter is something special. It was not in a way that we felt like he is something more. This is not OK imo and that makes harry not special in comparison to other "heroes" in other books...

As for the source of all evil, that is a very stupid sentence! He is by faaaaaar not that important to be the source of all evil. He is not a source of any evil acctually. People made him evil..he by himself is without any influence at all!

[Cool_Freaker]

Albus Dumbledore, on Oct 3 2006, 02:58 PM, said:

i know, seriously she had better not kill harry off.. i will scream! although bad endings are awsome too.

Oh really? That is indeed strange, because I was hoping he would be the next to die.

[Albus Dumbledore]

frankly, i dont really care who dies just give us an ending!! lol

[brandice]

I disagree with the thought that Harry is the source of all evil. But I do agree with Albus Dumbledore, here. I want that last book!

I've heard some people say the the whole thing would be a waste of time if Harry ended up dying in the end. But that's not true. He might have to die, he might not. Whatever happens is going to make sense and it's not going to take away from how great these books and the lessons in them are.

It's all going to come together and hopefully we all won't feel gypped (sp?) in the end.

I would like to see Sirius come back somehow. Forget Lily and James. haha.

[pixieloo]

I don't think Harry Potter is evil, but there are a lot of killings, and they all have something to do with him. If he hadn't lived when Voldemort tried to kill him, then we wouldn't be reading about it, and that would be no fun.

But a lot of the bad things that happen are Harry's fault, in a way.

I'd also like to see Sirius back. And I wish J.K. Rowling hadn't killed off so many people.

[-bLiNd-]

I'm not that big of a Harry Potter fan, but the first two movies were very very good, I don't know about the books though, don't get much time for reading anymore lmao

[brandice]

The books are 100 times better than the movies. Especially these last two movies. They are leaving out more and more stuff from the books as the series goes on. I guess that is because the books are getting twice as long every time. haha.

If you like the movies, though, you will like the books. They are well worth taking a few minutes a day to read.

[biscuitrat]

I wouldn't say the root of all evil. He's a fallible TEENAGER for god's sake. Who's going to expect him (and yes, I can do a little bashing of my own generation) to have complete control over his life? You've got to remember, this is sort of an alternate universe from ours. Guns don't kill people; magic does, and magic is everywhere. It's a war, essentially, and people die in wars. So no - he's not evil - he's never killed anyone for the sake of killing them, nor has he done it in self defense. Can you recall a single moment where HE was the one who cast the spell? No, it was someone else every time. That's what Rowling wants to point out. Just because someone watches while another person trips and falls down 70 flights of stairs doesn't mean they did it. If you still believe that, read the books again and recall that Harry doesn't have a superior control over his mind or his magic. When he charges out somewhere, people follow him of their own volition. He may be stupid for doing that, but he's not responsible for what happens next.

Edited by biscuitrat, 08 October 2006 - 03:39 PM.

[Cherish]

It's true that Harry has been somewhat at fault for most of the misfortunate events in the series, though we have to all remember, he's only human, and more so, just a kid.

In every one of our lives things will happen and when it's time for someone to point the finger, the person who's most at fault (even if there was no way to know what would happen,) could very well be yourself. It's the same for Harry, he just does what he thinks he should and in most cases there is absolutely no way for him to tell that it's the wrong thing to do.

The only thing that sets us apart from him is that his um, "world" is a lot more fragile than ours, so if you do something wrong the consequences could be enormous and possibly life-threatening. As you can see for yourself, in every book we learn of something new and potentially dangerous. The "wizarding world" is full of unknown threats that Harry is just as unaware of as the reader himself. There's no way he could predict that the cup would be a port key, or that Creature was lying.

I'm not saying I really like Harry, since I do find myself very annoyed when he selfishly takes out his anger on those who try to help him, and his mope-around, feel sorry for himself phases make me want to close the stupid book, but I don't hate him either.

A character without flaws would be boring, and I'm sure J.K. Rowling knows that. Besides, without those many screw ups the books wouldn't be anything but, "scar hurts, went to class, scar hurts again, went to bed, scar hurts, whined about it to those who would listen," and so on.

No one would read it =P

[Zlash]

I totally agree that Harry does have the blame for Sirius' death. If the had obeyed Dumbledore, Sirius' would not have come to the ministry and died. Those who say this is wrong: "If Harry had not come, the death eaters would have grabbed The Prochecy". Harry and Voldemort is the only people who could touch The Prochecy as it was only about them. Voldemort couldn't come to the ministry so he wanted Harry to do the job. As Dumbledore already knew what The Prochecy would say there was no need to go and find out for Harry. So in the fifth book, Harry just screws everything up.

[bhavesh]

I loved the Harry Potter series and I saw all the series of it. I would not thing that Harry Potter is the source of all evil. He is a good wizard and always trying to do some thing good. But in the coming series all the good characters were dying one by one even the Harry, this I would not liked. The writer have to make the Harry alive as a hero, as if hero himself dies than who were care about the evils in the world.

[demonatashadow]

I agree that some of the scenes are violent but I also agree that its for entertainment. As an author of teen action books I should know that the author wants to entertain the readers by putting in unexpected twists and turns that will leave the reader begging for more. All of the stuff she (J.K. Rowling) put in was probably only to entertain the readers not state violent scenes.

[nirmaldaniel]

Once i have come across what Peter smith said, The premiere of Harry Potter the movie will lead to a whole new generation of youngsters discovering witchcraft and wizardry....Increasing numbers of children are spending hours alone browsing the internet in search of Satanic websites and we are concerned that nobody is monitoring this growing fascination, yes friends i agree Harry potter is not a good book to read, it spoils young minds.

and there are some reasons why you should not read These books and i came across it recently and i am putting those to you ,

Quote

God shows us that witchcraft, sorcery, spells, divination and magic are evil. He hates those practices because they blind us to His loving ways, then turn our hearts to a deceptive quest for self-empowerment and deadly thrills. Harry Potter's world may be fictional, but the timeless pagan practices it promotes are real and deadly. Well aware that the final result is spiritual bondage and oppression, He warns us:

"There shall not be found among you anyone who... practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord..." Deuteronomy 18:9-12

The movie's foundation in fantasy, not reality, doesn't diminish its power to change beliefs and values. Imaginary (or virtual) experiences and well-written fantasies can affect the mind and memories as much, if not more, than actual experiences.[3]Designed to stir feelings and produce strong emotional responses, a well-planned myth with likeable characters can be far more memorable than the less exciting daily reality -- especially when reinforced through books, toys and games as well as movies. Small wonder Harry's fans have been counting the days until their next fantastic journey into Hogwarts' classes on sorcery, divination, potions and spells.

"But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward." Jeremiah 7:24

Each occult image and suggestion prompts the audience to feel more at home in this setting. Children identify with their favorite characters and learn to see wizards and witches from a popular peer perspective rather than from God's perspective. Those who sense that the occult world is evil face a choice: Resist peer pressure or rationalize their imagined participation in Harry's supernatural adventures.

The second choice may quiet the nagging doubts, but rationalizing evil and justifying sin will sear the conscience and shift the child's perception of values from God's perspective to a more "comfortable" cultural adaptation. Even Christian children can easily learn to conform truth to multicultural ideals and turn God's values upside down - just as did God's people in Old Testament days:

"But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward." Jeremiah 7:24

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness....
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:2-21

God tells us to "abhor what is evil" and "cling to what is good." (Romans 12:9) But when Christian children and teens love the Harry Potter myths, delight in the movie and read the books again and again, they are desensitizing their hearts and minds to its evil. Turning God's truth upside down, they are learning to "love" what is evil. The natural next step is to reject God's wise boundaries and "abhor" what He calls good.

"You love evil more than good...." Psalm 52:3

Immersed in Hogwarts' beliefs and values, children learn to ignore or reinterpret God's truth. They lose their natural aversion for the devious spirits represented by the creatures and symbols in this eerie world. Caught up in the exciting story, they absorb the suggested values and store the fascinating images in their minds -- making the forbidden world of the occult seem more normal than the Kingdom of God.

Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9

This inner change is usually unconscious, for the occult lessons and impressions tend to bypass rational scrutiny. After all, who will stop, think and weigh the evidence when caught up in such a fast-moving visual adventure? Fun fantasies and strategic entertainment has a special way of altering values, compromising beliefs and changing behavior in adults as well as in children. This learning process has been named "edutainment" -- a favored way to train multicultural citizens for the envisioned 21st century community. Its power to influence beliefs and behavior is illustrated by today's marketing firms which spend billions on entertaining ads that touch emotions, ignore the facts, yet motivate people to buy the product.

Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things, and revive me in Your way." Psalm 119:37

The main product marketed through this movie is a new belief system. This pagan ideology comes complete with trading cards, computer and other wizardly games, clothes and decorations stamped with HP symbols, action figures and cuddly dolls and audio cassettes that could keep the child's minds focused on the occult all day and into night. But in God's eyes, such paraphernalia become little more than lures and doorways to deeper involvement with the occult. In contrast, He calls a person "blessed" who -

"walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
nor stands in the path of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of the scornful [mockers];

"But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night. Whatever he does shall prosper." Psalm 1:1-3

The implied source of power behind Harry's magical feats tend to distort a child's understanding of God. In the movie as in the books, words traditionally used to refer to occult practices become so familiar that children begin to apply the same terms to God and His promised strength. Many learn to see God as a power source that can be manipulated with the right kind of prayers and rituals -- and view his miracles as just another form of magic. They base their understanding of God on their own feelings and wants, not on His revelation of Himself.

"You thought that I was altogether like you; but I will rebuke you...." Psalm 50:21

Blind to the true nature of God, children will blend (synthesize) Biblical truth with pagan beliefs and magical practices. In the end, you distort and destroy any remnant of true Christian faith. For our God cannot be molded to match pagan gods.

“For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water." Jeremiah 2:1

God tells us to "train up a child in the way He should go." It starts with teaching them God's truths and training them all day long to see reality from His, not the world's perspective. To succeed, we need to shield them from contrary values until they know His Word and have memorized enough Scriptures to be able to recognize and resist deception. Once they have learned to love what God loves and see from His perspective, they will demonstrate their wisdom by choosing to say "no" to Harry Potter.

“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up." Deuteronomy 6:6-7

While some argue that Harry and his friends model friendship and integrity, they actually model how to lie and steal and get away with it. Their examples only add to the cultural relativism embraced by most children today who are honest when it doesn't cost anything, but who lie and cheat when it serves their purpose.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased [depraved] mind, to do those things which are not fitting.... They are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them." Romans 1:28-32

God has a better way. When His children choose to follow His ways, He gives them a heart to love Him, spiritual eyes that can understand and delight in His Word, a sense of His presence and a confidence in His constant care -- no matter what happens around us. Harry Potter's deceptive thrills are worse than worthless when compared to the wonderful riches our Shepherd promises those who will ignore evil and walk with Him.

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things." Philippians 4:6-8

friends these are the reasons which i came across and im happy to let you also.

Notice from rvalkass:

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[michaeln]

Wait, if harry was the source of ALL evil, that basically means that voldemort had no evil as harry had it all. Pretty confusing. But anyway, harry didn't really KILL the teacher in book 1, he just held out his hands. As for Sirius, well, I'd agree if you said that harry was the most UNLUCKY boy in the world, or something like that.

[rushi0326]

i don't care who dies or who lives. I just care that voldemort is dead and that harry defeated him. Harry rules.

[LiveHiFi]

I'd have to disagree with this post. Sorry OP. I think Harry Potter is an inspiration to young kids around the world, and gives the youth of today a role model, without giving them a costume to put on. What I mean by this is, Harry Potter is given qualities that we can all gain from, yet he is not someone we can actually become because of the fact he is a wizard.

[Bluebear]

So suddenly Harry is the center of all evil? Suddenly he's the reason everything goes completely wrong?

No, I don't think so. It is not Harry's fault that all those things happens, but yes his actions do lead to them. But it is like that in every persons life! Your actions can, or do give consequences for another human being or anything living at all. Nobody can know what their consequences leads to, so there is no way they can change it or prevent it from happening, unless your psychic or something.

Okey, so: Harry can't say the future. What happens, happens and there is nothing he can do about it.

[EngrJayze]

harry didn't die on deathly hallows book.. but dumbledore did [not],,the story is cloudy on my head now.. the deathly hallows stuff is amazingly described yet it had no major contributions on the later part of the book..
is deathly hallows the last part of the harry potter series?.. i think so because finally voldemort was defeated

[r0b-dog]

but isnt that all part of the book and plot, the book cant all be nice and goodness there has to be some tension.. nearly all books have it these days, a sense of evil.