15 replies to this topic

[Watermonkey]

I was horrified to learn this evening on the news that the new George Washington golden dollar, in its first run of 300 million, included a unknown number missing the Latin, "E Pluribus Unum" and the motto, "In God We Trust". The first such coin sold on eBay commanded a $600 bid because the extent of the error was unknown at the time. Now they're selling at the online auction house for around $50 each. According to the article, the coins all go through the same stamping process as usual but to gain the inscriptions which appear out of site along the edge, they go through an extra machine. So far it's only the coins minted in Philadelphia that have been found to be missing the inscriptions.

My question is two-fold: First, it seems apparent someone is embarrassed to include the phrases, "Out of Many, One" and "In God We Trust", in the first place. Why else would they have put them on the edge of the coins, invisible when viewing either the head or the tail? Secondly, was it really a mistake, or is there a group of people in the U.S. who've gotten someone inside the mint to make this "mistake"?

With all the talk, apparently, of petitions and groups lobbying the US Mint to remove the motto from all currency and the intense QC process the coins go through before they're rolled and shipped, it seems an error of this apparent magnitude should've been caught earlier. I believe there's a force afoot in this country (and on this planet too) to remove "God" from all public institutions. It's been evident for quite a while and you'd need to be blind in one eye and not see out of the other to not have noticed. Or, I suppose, if you were caught up in your games and sitcoms on TV you might have missed it, too, but you can't sit around playing games forever. At some point you need to face the world and you'd better be armed with knowledge when you do. Anyway, What say you?

Edited by Watermonkey, 09 March 2007 - 11:59 PM.

[Thorned Rose]

1. Sorry, but who cares?!
2. "In God we trust" excludes people who don't believe in God or adhere to other religions.
3. State and religion is supposed to be separate
4. I would think that religious people wouldn't want "In God we trust" printed on 'the root of all evil'

New Zealand money doesn't have anything like that on it and it nobody cares. State and religion is very separate in this country and nobody gets upset about it. People are allowed to believe what they want rather than having one group of peoples' beliefs shoved down their throats at ever turn. I think what you say as well, sounds decidedly conspirational. From the outside looking in you sound like a stereotypical American or 'Yank'. I'm not trying to sound mean or be mean, just giving you the perspective of someone who lives on the other side of the world.

[God-Of-Earth]

I think the idea is that the motto "in god we trust" is a historical thing more than religious. Im from the uk so im not too sure but id say its historical having a natinal motto and fair play to them for wanting to keep it. Over here we would have got rid of anything like that years ago in fear of people being offended.

Fair play to people for wanting to keep there natinal motto and such.

I really dont think its anything to do with religion at all so if you are a "yank" as Thorned rose so delicatly put, and you have some historical values, i would too be kind of upset about having it missing.

[FolkRockFan]

Actually, the Bible verse states that THE LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil. It does not say that the money itself is evil. Nor do most Christians actually believe that. We make and spend money just like anybody else. The point is just that being a slave to money - say, working eighty hours a week instead of spending more time with your family...or going into major credit-card debt just to keep up with the Joneses - is wrong.

As for separation of church and state: the idea is to prevent state-sanctioned religion. The state doesn't get to force people to worship a certain being (or NOT worship any being, for that matter). The "separation of church and state" doesn't really have anything to do with whether kids are allowed to pray in public schools, or if "In God We Trust" is stamped on our money or not. Religion is every individual's decision to make - not the government's. Having a certain national motto stamped on currency does not force anybody to worship anything, so "separation of church and state" doesn't really apply here.

I'm a Christian who doesn't believe that what's stamped on our money makes us any more or less of a God-fearing nation. Religion - any religion - is an individual thing. What the government prints on my money does not make me any better or worse in God's eyes...and it doesn't make me a better or worse Christian.

So...whatever. People can try to remove God from everything in this nation - money, court houses, public Christmas displays - but they can't take God out of the hearts of those who love and worship Him.

And that, I think, is what really matters.

[Thorned Rose]

Well, didn't take very long for this thread to be hijacked. Sorry FolkRockFan but I have to disagree with pretty much everything you say. Though I am well aware of what the Bible says about money, having once been a devout Catholic and reborn Christian parents. What I said was meant as a joke hence the face.
As you said

Quote

As for separation of church and state: the idea is to prevent state-sanctioned religion

but having "In God we trust" on money IS sanctioning/condoning one particular religion. If you were to be neutral you would either have to not have it at all or have something like "In Gods or God or Yaweh or Godess or Zeus or Allah or Jah or Buddha or Bhagavan or Ahura Mazda or Gitche Manitou or Shang Ti or Odin (etc), in no particular order, we trust". What you say about the separation of church and state is complete bs. The whole point of seperating it is so that people are free choose without any bias towards one particular set of beliefs. Printing "In God we trust" is plain, smack-in-the-face bias. The very fact that you call the U.S. a "God-faring nation" just reeks of bias.
I do agree with you however that people should spend more time with their families than working. I would much rather be poor and happy and spending time with my family than spending most of my time slogging away at work that makes me miserable and never seeing my family. But that's a little off topic

[truefusion]

Perhaps it was no mistake, but a way to please the percentage of those who don't believe in Him for how ever long it may be. Though if it were to please that percentage of people, i think they would have included "E Pluribus Unum" and would have just excluded "In God We Trust." But it is quite interesting that they didn't make a "test" coin before mass producing. There seems to be an equal amount of reasons for either side, so no clear answer may be given.

[hr=noshade]

Thorned Rose, on Mar 8 2007, 05:06 PM, said:

[1]Well, didn't take very long for this thread to be hijacked. [. . .] [2]Though I am well aware of what the Bible says about money, having once been a devout Catholic and reborn Christian parents. [3]What I said was meant as a joke hence the face.

[1]A trap well set catches its prey?
[2]Could you quote the Bible (with bbcoding, of course) next time, please?
[3]I think tongues () are more suitable for jokes. Winks tend to be in a different sense.
[/hr]

[greenyb118]

Personally, and this is just my opinion mind, the coins were sabotaged by none other than satan himself. He crept into the mint and erased the inscription from each and every one of the gold coins using his dark powers. By buying one of these cursed coins you condemn your very soul to an eternity of pain and torment. Or, you know, the machine was broken.
Either way, as great as God is, I bet they have your details on file just in case...

[FLaKes]

I cant believe someone would pay $600 dollars for a coin like this. Well maybe its price might go up in the future to remember the time when the error happened, but if they take it of from all the coins separating state from religion then that person must feel really bad. I personally think that it is more of a historic deal than a religious deal that the American currency has an in god we trust on it. It didnt ever ocurr to the people in Mexico to put that in currency even though that this country is a very religious country.

[Watermonkey]

The Jamestown colony, the first colony settled by England in the New World of America which would come to be known as the United States of America, was founded on a charter that begins, "James, by the grace of God [King of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, defender of the faith, etc.] To all [to whom these presents shall come, greeting.]"

The full content of the charter can be found here: http://www.geocities...52/page102.html. The origins of this country in particular, and Canada too I believe, are founded in a tradition of Christianity originating from the King of England, James I and the Church of England who also commissioned the King James Bible from the Church of England. There was no "constitution" for a century after the first colonists on the Atlantic seaboard from England to guarantee anyone's "God-given rights" like there is today (specifically the right to worship freely or not). That there is something in the constitution regarding separation of church and state is myth. The state is forbidden to sanction one religion over another and isn't allowed to establish a religion. But to have a plaque of the Ten Commandments on a courthouse... come on. The Ten Commandments are something we should all live by, regardless of religion. If it offends you, then maybe you're breaking the laws of Moses and these laws are often supported by the modern laws of the state which means maybe you're a criminal if you're uncomfortable with the Ten Commandments on display. I say, if you're not happy in America, instead of trying to change our country and its traditions of Christianity and ruining it for the rest of us, how about either coping or moving. I hear Oz is nice this time of year...

From Wikipedia:

Quote

The motto In God We Trust was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the American Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout Christians throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize God on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861.

[hybridsystem]

I have to say it's an easy wait to make $50 but I do believe that it should be permanently removed. I don't follow any religion and for those who follow religions other than Christianity, of which there are a lot, I think it should. I DON'T think it should be replaced by another religion though, or that they should release coins for all major religions! That would be obsurd but I know of people who think like that.

I think in Government and Politics, religion only has a small place, and should not be forced upon the masses in such a way as to publish it on currency.

I think it should be removed and that if it came down to a vote that it would be.