31 replies to this topic

[keri-j]

I see little point in the "What browser do you use?" topic except to discuss the pros and cons of different browsers.

It's obvious that most people will use Internet Explorer because almost all computers that are bought for people or sold to them are pre-loaded with Some version of Windows, in which the only browser is Microsoft's own, Internet Explorer. And since a big proportion of first-time computers users are not so computer savvy and do not become so because they do not really need to, they will use what they are given.

In the internet Cafe I am typing from, a few of the (Windows 2000/XP) computers have Mozilla Firefox installed on them, most likely by Firefox enthusiasts, and I see that almost all of the people who use the computers use Internet Explorer, because they will stick to what they know.

Now I, I was lucky enough to have friends that use Firefox and being the wannabe non-conformist that I am, I rejected IE and installed Firefox, and since then have always thought of IE as a product of "The Man". I am also close to ditching Windows all together, and going with Linux... But anyway, I digress.

It has recently come to my attention that computer company Dell will be giving the option of having either Linux or Windows Vista pre-installed on the computer systems it sells, giving Mozilla Firefox and other good browsers a chance.

I hope this has been fairly interesting for someone, and I strongly encourage people to download and try Mozilla Firefox, a great (free!) browser. Get Firefox.

Edited by keri-j, 10 May 2007 - 04:43 PM.

[SNiped]

Honestly You have it totally correct, the reason IE is so popular is because "most" pc's come with Windows Installed which naturally comes with IE. People who about firefox but dont want to mess around with there computer's.

I think if Dell do give the option of either Linux or windows, IE will still be ahead of the other's because people do not know what Linux is, Everyone know's what windows is.

I Also Highly Advise downloading Firefox

[arnz]

Came prepacked with most PCs, would be one major reason why IE is so popular. Although the rise of 'Netscape Mk 2' (aka Firefox) is one thing. Interestingly enough when the internet actually went commercial in the mid 90s, Netscape started as the leading Internet Browser before Internet Explorer eventually took over for numerous reasons.

But as for operating systems, its interesting if Dell does go with the options of either packaging PCs with either Windows Vista or Linux.. but a computer 'n00b' would have no idea what linux is.

[Dagoth Nereviar]

I like to use IE, and since I'm the only one who seems to prefer it over FireFox (and who's posted ) I'll give my view on it:

Pros:
*I seem to like it more than firefox because it just seems less "crowded". I've tried FF and even Opera, but they seemed to have too many toolbars.
* The obvious one, because it's what was installed Less messing about
* The font size. I don't know why, but it's probably coz I've used it so much and I'm used to it now, but the "Smaller" font is what I prefer, and in FF/Opera, I couldn't get the font size the same, and it bugged me
* And, also slightly said above, because it's what I've used for ages, so I'm used to it.

Cons:
* It's security/pop-up blocking is quiet poop, but you can always get firewalls/anti-viri/pop-up blockers, but it is more hassle.
* "It's noobish". Now, I'm not saying this, but alot of people will "burn" you because, since you use IE, you must be a noob/microsoft fan boy (Off topic: Anyone who feels that way...Do you have to be an Apple fan-boy if you own an Ipod? Or maybe you just like it coz it's a good MP3 player? Idiots ). So if your "image" is important to you, then it'd be a bad thing to use IE

That's how I feel anyways

[serverph]

the simple fact is, most people don't know any better so they just make do with what they have.

if some people consider firefox as the "alternative" browser, i consider it as my "principal" browser. IE comes third to me (Opera being the second ).

[srujanlive]

Most paople dont know other browsers exist. That would be it.

[arnz]

srujanlive, on Apr 22 2007, 07:25 AM, said:

Most paople dont know other browsers exist. That would be it.

Most people would be at least computer literate to know that there are at least other alternatives.. eg Mac Users, and even newbs who has a friend or a few that is computer literate would at least introduce them to their preferred browser (which in many cases would be firefox if not IE).

[cangor]

Okay, you all seem to think IE is so popular, but at least among the demographic that visits my site, there are nearly as many people use firefox as people who use IE, so Firefox is definately becoming more popular and IE less so... Internet Explorer isn't as popular as it used to be. More people are using firefox now because it's simply better. People still use firefox because it comes with their computers, but people are getting smarter.

[Android]

Right. Even in Vista i don't use the new IE, i use Firefox. I personally think it IS better, maybe because of it's ease and design.

[saga]

Well until now i am still using IE
But it doesnt make me a noob hehehe...
but sometimes i use FireFox if im developing a website.. just to check what it will look like in different browser.
One of my reason why I am not using FF right now is Im used to IE. I am familair on how it works and its buttons and
menus. Until there is a very good reason like security problem or some serious problem or there are some damaging bug in IE I will use FF. But for now I will be using IE. Its not becuase I love it, its becuase Im used to it and it works. Its the same with OS, im a programmer but im not using Linux or FreeBSD which is free. My reason is, most of my clients uses WIndows (Stores, Internet Cafe, Video Rental, Pharmacy etc) so there is no point of using Unix family of OS. Windows maybe crappy sometimes or almost of the time but it works and it is the most common OS. In my opinion Mac/Apple is bad idea as a complete system for market.. but the upcoming IPhone is cool.

[mvwi]

I would have to agree with the threadstarter. Until a few years ago, I didn't pay much attention to other browsers with the exception of Netscape Navigator because most machines have IE pre-installed. Now, I use Firefox and Netscape primarily over IE. What browser is best depends on an individual's preferences.

[keri-j]

After seeing a quick update in a computer magazine, it seems that only HP (Hewlett Packard I think) will be selling PCs with Linux pre-installed after Dell chickened out, and HP will only be doing so on a small scale anyway. I think Dell's decision was sucky from a personal point of view, but obviously a good one from a business point of view. I mean, who's going to buy in to an Operating System they don't know about? Most people I know don't know that there's an alternative to Windows that isn't Mac.

If you support Linux being pre-installed on PCs, it seems that the only thing you can do is go out there and inform people of Linux's existentce and how good it really is. Telling them you can boot from a live CD without getting rid of or damaging Windows would be a very good thing if you explain it well or show them yourself, because that kind of task can seem quite daunting to a computer newbie.

[magickosta]

i think its becouse its made by microsoft and comes with the computer

[miladinoski]

I think all of you n00bs which still continue to use IE should learn a bit about standards and coding with standards on your mind and how IE breaks them with its rendering which is full of flaws and because of which lots of people must make separate CSS stylesheets for IE6 and IE7 just because they don;t follow the standards whch are set by W3. I mean, yeah, people don't know of nothing when they buy a PC, but continuing to use IE even if you know it's worse than other browser, but continue to use it only because you are used to it is very stupid.
You should definitively switch and make MS think of how many people stopped using it's stupid crappy old browser which CSS rendering (of the 7th ver) can be compared with Opera 6 which's first beta came out 5 years ago!
Stop using the poorly coded browser. Just STOP!

[Saint_Michael]

Well sad to say though that Internet Explorer 8 is here to fix all those problems with standards, however, with XHTML 2 and HTML 5 on the horizon it won't matter much as all major browsers will have to go through a update to get those two standards to work. Of course, Opera and Firefox have begin to implement some XHTML 2 and HTML 5, not all but some, in order for programmers and designers to get an idea how it will work and see what changes need to be made.

[innosia]

Saint_Michael, on Oct 6 2008, 07:14 PM, said:

Well sad to say though that Internet Explorer 8 is here to fix all those problems with standards, however, with XHTML 2 and HTML 5 on the horizon it won't matter much as all major browsers will have to go through a update to get those two standards to work. Of course, Opera and Firefox have begin to implement some XHTML 2 and HTML 5, not all but some, in order for programmers and designers to get an idea how it will work and see what changes need to be made.

anyone knows any good sites for learning these new standards?
I want to learn, to keep up with current latest and best technology... zzz...

[miladinoski]

Quote

Well sad to say though that Internet Explorer 8 is here to fix all those problems with standards

Internet Exploder 8 won't fix anything, it's still the same old crappy browser with less CSS support than Opera 8 and no SVG support. The lame guys at Microsoft are too lazy to do anything about it.

[joeblogg]

internet explorer is popular because its easy. its already installed and you just go straight to browsing. most people won't be screwed to actually go and download some browser which does the exact same job and is no different except in the styling. no one cares about the browser. as long as it works and you can go straight to your favorite sites then everyone is happy.

[contactskn]

Dear friend here I would like your aproach towards the concept that most people dont want to change their know how towards a technique. That means they don't want to change towards new techniques etc. And thats the biggest problem out here. 

[Nik]

IE is preinstalled with windows operating system that's why IE is most popular. And most of the people don't know about the availability of other browsers. They stick to the IE only. And they think that IE is better and don't go for other browsers.

[deadmad7]

Nik, on 17 August 2010 - 12:39 PM, said:

IE is preinstalled with windows operating system that's why IE is most popular. And most of the people don't know about the availability of other browsers. They stick to the IE only. And they think that IE is better and don't go for other browsers.

Internet Explorer IS better in many ways. It's PERFECT for families and even big companies are still sticking to IE since its clean and simple. It DOESN'T bother you with updates and everything. IE NEVER lags one bit on my XP Home Edition computer with 512 RAM and it works for EVERY webpage ever made. Even when some sites don't load on Firefox or Chrome, i load up my IE 6 and it works fine. And you don't even have to worry about adding some addons and plugins and themes and other useless things... no hassles at all.

[The Simpleton]

deadmad7, on 17 August 2010 - 01:04 PM, said:

Internet Explorer IS better in many ways. It's PERFECT for families and even big companies are still sticking to IE since its clean and simple. It DOESN'T bother you with updates and everything. IE NEVER lags one bit on my XP Home Edition computer with 512 RAM and it works for EVERY webpage ever made. Even when some sites don't load on Firefox or Chrome, i load up my IE 6 and it works fine. And you don't even have to worry about adding some addons and plugins and themes and other useless things... no hassles at all.

In a way you're right. So long as people stick to surfing safe sites and stay away from unknown sites, they're safe. It's important to keep your browser updated but IE doesn't bother you about this, and you're safe only until no one realises that you're using a browser with holes in it. So if people think they can control their surfing, then sure, IE is a good browser. But if they're daring surfers who don't mind looking at new sites, then it's high time they upgrade to a more secure browser.

[Bikerman]

It seems to me that miladinoski gives the main valid reason for not using IE. Microsoft are very reluctant to adopt any standard that is not their own. They resisted Java because it was owned by Sun (now Oracle), even though the code and APIs were freely available. The reason that there is so much incompatibility between browsers on the internet is precisely because of this reluctance to accept and properly implement standards. Microsoft constantly look to implement their own proprietary standards so they can cash-in. Their argument is normally that standards are a lowest common denominator arrangement which stifle innovation and lead to mediocre products. That is a superficially attractive argument but I think it is over-stated.

The next big test will be how Microsoft implements HMTL5 and whether it still insists on proprietary codecs or finally comes on-board with the definition of HTML5-video standards.

[The Simpleton]

Bikerman, on 18 August 2010 - 06:06 PM, said:

It seems to me that miladinoski gives the main valid reason for not using IE. Microsoft are very reluctant to adopt any standard that is not their own. They resisted Java because it was owned by Sun (now Oracle), even though the code and APIs were freely available. The reason that there is so much incompatibility between browsers on the internet is precisely because of this reluctance to accept and properly implement standards. Microsoft constantly look to implement their own proprietary standards so they can cash-in. Their argument is normally that standards are a lowest common denominator arrangement which stifle innovation and lead to mediocre products. That is a superficially attractive argument but I think it is over-stated.

The next big test will be how Microsoft implements HMTL5 and whether it still insists on proprietary codecs or finally comes on-board with the definition of HTML5-video standards.

MS was never the most innovative company - they're just smart people who seem to do the right things at the right time, althoughtheir timing seems to be going wrong nowadays. Their insistence that their products are good and the other products are up to no good is laughable. It's sad that they're still allowed to ship IE along with Windows. Had it not been for this single factor, I'm positive that IE wouldn't figure in the top 5 browsers list. Anyway now nothing can be changed; let's see how far IE trots along and what it does with HTML5.

[vhortex]

IE can't be removed from windows since in fact they built almost everything that can view, list and sort folders and files over IE. This is the main root reason why they can't remove it. I made an example and block IE totally on my windows 7 and viola.. I don't have a taskbar, no folders was visible and no "my computer". It is identical to blocking Internet Explorer and Explorer (windows folder system).

Microsoft also have this standard of "stealing others works and sue the creators" which is happening a lot for the past 8 years where they keep on stealing open source codes, get them patented and sue the original creator. There are a lot of this dumb approaches made by Microsoft.

The other root reason what that almost all IBM compatible computer manufacturer was forced by Microsoft to sell computers that will always be prebundled with Windows and IE. If they don't comply they won't get updates, of course this is possible since Microsoft have all database of serials for this companies. Even microsoft update sends your serials including your hardware parts makers and serials.

This root of evil was starting to be countered and countries are starting to block Microsoft one by one. But still Microsoft wins on some battles due to common problem which is "Most people will refuse to learn new things".

****************

IE as non lagging on others is a browser where I need to write a separate CSS stylesheet for IE6, IE7 and IE8 having 40% compatibility between IE6 and IE 8 and almost none at IE7 and IE8 with regards on what they support and how they support it. This is not a case with Opera, Firefox and other browsers in exception to Apple browsers that tends to have thicker default fonts.

Between IE, Firefox, Opera, Chrome (heck chrome is still incomplete) and Apples browser... only IE keeps on sending information that I did not specifically initiated. Only IE keeps on being hijacked and only IE keeps on crashing due to buffer overflow. If only people around the world won't be so lazy to provide payment gateways web interface that also work on other browsers with out using way to much active-X then I can totally ditched IE when I am not developing websites that must also work on IE.


NOTE: I am happy that Xisto websites work on all browsers including payment interface.

Edited by vhortex, 19 August 2010 - 03:48 AM.