19 replies to this topic

[ankur.maheshwari]

some people say that what you will do today will decide your future. is it really posible. i dont think so!!

think of it. what ever we do today generates some information which has to be sent in to the future to change it (or effect it). so for an instantaneous change, the information has to go into the future in zero time. for this the information packets have to move with a speed greater (or equal to speed of time). and we all know that it is not possible to move with a speed greater than that of light.

those who dont know this i will give the formula developed by einstein which gives the mass of a body moving at some velocity. it is given by,

m` = m/SQRT(1-(v/c)^2)

where,
m`= mass of moving body
m= mass of stationary body
v= velocity of the body
c= velocity of light

SQRT is square root

now if the speed tends to become equal to that of c i.e. speed of light the mass of the body increases and tends to reach towards infinity. so that means moving with that speed is not possible so then the information cant effect our future instantaneously. there will be some delay. which means nothing is called destiny or our deeds define our future.!! everything is random. its all about choices and the probability of the outcome of that action.

[amit nigam]

hello buddy,

i thought that it would be good if i be the first one to reply back...nice post buddy...you have i think put a lot of mind in that....but what u have written can lead to two things...

one is that either there is nothing of the sort of destiny and hence is according to what you are trying to prove...

the other way to look at it is as if maybe there is a fixed destiny and it does not chnage according to what we do in present...

so one angle makes the destiny thing illogical and one way makes it more strong....

chalo...maybe someone else will put some more points to clear it up...

ok bye...keep writing...

[truefusion]

ankur.maheshwari, on Jun 30 2007, 11:10 AM, said:

so that means moving with that speed is not possible so then the information cant effect our future instantaneously. there will be some delay. which means nothing is called destiny or our deeds define our future.!! everything is random. its all about choices and the probability of the outcome of that action.

You say it can't affect things instantly—that there will be some delay. Then you go on to say that it'll take some time. Err, we don't have this time it'll take? It's the future we're talking about here. This quoted part here contradicts itself. You can't say that it's possible (i.e. not instantly), then go on to say that it isn't and that it's all random.

By the way, let's say there is no moving "body", how does that fit into your equation? Or let's say there is no stationary "body", how does that fit? The object cannot be both stationary and moving.

Also, what is everyone's destiny? If it was random, not everyone would have the same destiny (death).

Of course, math is unnecessary to prove that "destiny" is dependent not on yourself.

And, yes, there is something called "destiny."

[ankur.maheshwari]

amit nigam, on Jun 30 2007, 08:54 PM, said:

but what u have written can lead to two things...

one is that either there is nothing of the sort of destiny and hence is according to what you are trying to prove...

the other way to look at it is as if maybe there is a fixed destiny and it does not chnage according to what we do in present...

thanks for ur feedback amit!!

ok let me rephrase my statements.. i am saying there can be no prediction!! only statistical average.. and that only through quantum physics.. classical newtonian fails here.. reasons the same as i said earlier..

AND the idea that "the state of the universe at one time determines the state at all other times" is faulty.. as it will require an information flow into the future which is not possible..

and also thinking that everything is "pre-written" also make any sense.. its about making!! the cause-effect mechanism!! we have choices. with every choice there are attached outcomes with certain probability.

"i beleive" that whatever decision we take is not been pre-defined anywhere. its rondom!! whatever we do is just a decision that we take today (although how much logical it me appear to us, it is due to some random numbers that made our brain to think in that way..

i hope this time i was able to put my idea across a bit in a more clearer way.. since its just an idea, with me being no scientist or philosopher, it will always be a bit difficult me to convince u all with some hard data or logic or theory..

anyways hope u ppl liked my contribution.. i did managed to start a discussion..

[Atthack]

I don't think there's a thing called Destiny... Because every action we do reflects what happens next!

Say i walk down the road and come to a lightcross, i'm just strolling the city and decide to take the right turn, then i could meet an old friend, maybe have a coffee at the little cafe there - However what if i chose LEFT? Well i'd probably not meet my good old friend, or stop for a coffee...

It's all "there and then" i think.

[ankur.maheshwari]

truefusion, on Jun 30 2007, 11:04 PM, said:

You say it can't affect things instantly—that there will be some delay. Then you go on to say that it'll take some time. Err, we don't have this time it'll take? It's the future we're talking about here. This quoted part here contradicts itself. You can't say that it's possible (i.e. not instantly), then go on to say that it isn't and that it's all random.

By the way, let's say there is no moving "body", how does that fit into your equation? Or let's say there is no stationary "body", how does that fit? The object cannot be both stationary and moving.

Also, what is everyone's destiny? If it was random, not everyone would have the same destiny (death).

nice point raised buddy..

first for ur 1st comment.. u say we have all that time to allow that time delay to seep in in our future.. and the delay is in defining or changing our future.. not in our future.. so that means if somemore over i have rephrased my statesments in my earlier post.. sorry for introducing too much ambiguity..

and as per your doubt regarding a "body" being present.. well according to quantum mechanics, every particle has a dual nature.. that means it acts as a mass as well as a wave.. (even light acts as a particle, that is why it rebounds from any surface) so when its mass characteristics are more strong, then newtonian mechanics governs the body, and when its the wave characteristic, its the quantum one!!

AND death is not our destiny.. death is not a stage.. its a path.. "when" you cross that path can not be effected by your present actions.. you can not predict.. only gives the average value..

[Striker9099]

ankur.maheshwari, on Jun 30 2007, 03:10 PM, said:

some people say that what you will do today will decide your future. is it really posible. i dont think so!!

think of it. what ever we do today generates some information which has to be sent in to the future to change it (or effect it). so for an instantaneous change, the information has to go into the future in zero time. for this the information packets have to move with a speed greater (or equal to speed of time). and we all know that it is not possible to move with a speed greater than that of light.

those who dont know this i will give the formula developed by einstein which gives the mass of a body moving at some velocity. it is given by,

m` = m/SQRT(1-(v/c)^2)

where,
m`= mass of moving body
m= mass of stationary body
v= velocity of the body
c= velocity of light

SQRT is square root

now if the speed tends to become equal to that of c i.e. speed of light the mass of the body increases and tends to reach towards infinity. so that means moving with that speed is not possible so then the information cant effect our future instantaneously. there will be some delay. which means nothing is called destiny or our deeds define our future.!! everything is random. its all about choices and the probability of the outcome of that action.

Well I believe that the only constant destiny we ALL have is DEATH! but other than that, everything changes according to our actions, thoughts, and decisions. for example, this year I've graduated from high school, now I have two choices, the first one is to study computer science at collage or study genetic engineering, so in this case, my future will change according to my decision, I won't be a genetic engineer if I chose to study computer science!! that's only possible if I chose to study genetic engineering!
now all that physics and math thing you talked about just doesn't make any sense to me, actually I didn't get the idea quiet well. But in case you are saying that it won't affect our future instantly then this might be true, but at the same time, you should keep in mind that we're talking about destiny which is FUTURE! so instead of changing it right now, why not wait for more 2 or 3 days and then change it... everything is possible! But eventhough, I still believe that our future is NOT pre-written, our decisions make our future, not anything else.

[Rasputin]

ankur.maheshwari, on Jul 1 2007, 10:42 AM, said:

thanks for ur feedback amit!!

ok let me rephrase my statements.. i am saying there can be no prediction!! only statistical average.. and that only through quantum physics.. classical newtonian fails here.. reasons the same as i said earlier..

AND the idea that "the state of the universe at one time determines the state at all other times" is faulty.. as it will require an information flow into the future which is not possible..

and also thinking that everything is "pre-written" also make any sense.. its about making!! the cause-effect mechanism!! we have choices. with every choice there are attached outcomes with certain probability.

"i beleive" that whatever decision we take is not been pre-defined anywhere. its rondom!! whatever we do is just a decision that we take today (although how much logical it me appear to us, it is due to some random numbers that made our brain to think in that way..

i hope this time i was able to put my idea across a bit in a more clearer way.. since its just an idea, with me being no scientist or philosopher, it will always be a bit difficult me to convince u all with some hard data or logic or theory..

anyways hope u ppl liked my contribution.. i did managed to start a discussion..

Anyone for chaos and entropy?

The fact is so little is actually chaos. Everything has the marks and scares and influence of everything else in the universe, however big ot miniscul that influence might be. Therefore everything in the universe has a slight variation of the universe as a whole. Therefore everything is made of patterns, shapes and subforms. Take the moon for example, seemingly empty but with form and subforms. It is round because of gravity and mass that it has, it has crater formed by the impacts of smaller objects hitting it. Take another example of a field of grass or wheat, it seems empty and random, yet it is made of of millions of precious forms of vegitation all formed to the DNA contained in them which is a result of millions of years of evolutions (history), Even the patterns they grow in are formed by earlier generations of the same product as well as the soil which is influence by millions of years of rain, erosion, fire, etc... these influences are also the result of patterns in the earths environment. Everything has many components that make up and influence its form, and many of the forms also exert their inherent purpose to their environment giving back to the cosmic all. If one can understand all, then one can understand destiny. But only by being everything would in my oppinion be anle to understand all, and that would let to loosing our own form and identity in the process. To that end we can only know slices of the universe if we hope to understand it, and then only within the context of that slice. Hence we seemly and practically have a degree of free will, that is by understand the slice we apply ourselves to, we can exert our will to modify its destiny, in the big picture this was innevitable. The more you know the more you realise you don't know. In this we escape boredom and keep ourselves busy, learning and entertain, or alternatively we suffer.

Destiny is what you make it, or at least that is a practical concept that we can serve. Else we are a leaf blowing in the wind subject to the winds of change and those who are serving the universe with their personal taste. To take from the universe is to serve the universe and give back to it. To be the leaf blown by the wind is to be the observer and student of the universe. Let the god that is in your heart shine and shape the universe and you will serve not only yourself, but the universe and god as well.

[Mailoreothoriel]

For me, there is a driving, primitive force that can leave everything defined. To something precise. But also, there is a huge thing and we call it "free will", it comes up in different ways, that, despite the definite future set by our actions ultil this moment, the next action we decide to take will afect it all. And that leaves us with a "what I do and what I've done results in a future".
Also, in all the universe, there is a driving law of Chaos and Cosmos. So, well.... Destiny is a half-right concept, but we shouldn't believe firmly on it. We must make up our own future. We have to worry about what we're doing NOW. this moment is the important moment. All other times are irrelevant!

And that's all I have to say xD

Edited by Mailoreothoriel, 09 November 2007 - 10:34 PM.

[verdant]

ankur.maheshwari, on Jun 30 2007, 07:10 AM, said:

some people say that what you will do today will decide your future. is it really posible. i dont think so!!

think of it. what ever we do today generates some information which has to be sent in to the future to change it (or effect it). so for an instantaneous change, the information has to go into the future in zero time. for this the information packets have to move with a speed greater (or equal to speed of time). and we all know that it is not possible to move with a speed greater than that of light.

those who dont know this i will give the formula developed by einstein which gives the mass of a body moving at some velocity. it is given by,

m` = m/SQRT(1-(v/c)^2)

where,
m`= mass of moving body
m= mass of stationary body
v= velocity of the body
c= velocity of light

SQRT is square root

now if the speed tends to become equal to that of c i.e. speed of light the mass of the body increases and tends to reach towards infinity. so that means moving with that speed is not possible so then the information cant effect our future instantaneously. there will be some delay. which means nothing is called destiny or our deeds define our future.!! everything is random. its all about choices and the probability of the outcome of that action.

you know theres one thing i hate about maths, science and the people who typicly utilize them... its not personal, i just watched the movie 'contact' last night, my mind is still going and this seems relevant.

people of today with the aid of facts seem to always conclude that they are correct. why? because what you see infront of you seems to be in order? ...thats like operating only in the worl of known-knowns and known-unknowns. when infact theres this magical world off to the left... called unknown-unknowns -- see 'the boondocks' season 1. when one ignores the posibility of posibilities, one inevitably sets oneself up for eventual failure. this is because -just as science works on facts, the world is really a large combinations of factors! as long as we humans remain unable to percive and respond to ALL factors nothing we say, see or do can truly be seen as correct, true, or inffalable.

no this is going a bit off topic, so to re-orentate lets look back at the title of this post. "is there something called destiny?". here what i dont get.... why would you try to use an equation to figure out what barely relates to math and seems more like a personal view?

just another unknown-unknown. im not saying that its stupid, cause it seems do-able... if you understood the factors.
and you have some factors there:
m`= mass of moving body
m= mass of stationary body
v= velocity of the body
c= velocity of light
and an equation to try and make sense of it:
m` = m/SQRT(1-(v/c)^2)

but could you tell me, or anyone what the velocity of an action is? whats its mass. does an action move faster than light? ...what i dont get is why you stop to question this... you know you have free will, you could read this whole message of your own free will, you could walk out side and murder some one of your own free will. its all the same. you dont need math to tell you that.

all in all destiny doesnt exist... lol