30 replies to this topic

[Janissary]

You may want to visit the Is Democracy The Perfect System? debate topic.

I'll skip my reasoning for now, right down to how to do it :)

#1 Current powers should willing to give up

#2 Do a scan to abondan little kids through country with test like IQ, pysocological state, abilty etc

#3 Take best thousand of them.

#4 Take care all of their needs. Educate them to become rulers, equip them with skills to run a country. Brainwash them with patriosim and citizen love etc. So they would think serving their country is the only thing worth in their live. Serving the country is their only purpose in life. (no need for worldly pleasures such as wealth, sex etc)

#5 Put best 500 of them into parlamento. And put other 500 to local offices.

#6 People will have no voice in parlamento. Let these 500 genius to form up their own votings and democray.

It like creating perfect soldier class (spartans, janissaries, monks). But this time you're creating a governor class.

By the way, the school wont stop raising governors. And old governors become teachers in the school.


:~)

Edited by Janissary, 24 May 2008 - 04:09 PM.

[tricky77puzzle]

That...seems much like a 1984-ish setting. I don't know why I keep on relating it to that...

[hitmanblood]

First of all your plan would never suceded why well there are manby reasons but the foremost important one is that noone would gladly give off their power well there are those who would give off their power however they are in large minority.

And I wanted to regard one more thing you have mentioned is perfect soldiers and you made list of them however I would say that the only real perfect soldiers were spartans janissaries are far from perfect soldiers. Thought this is not discussion about them it is important to consider

[Janissary]

Allright then, lets change it a bit:

#1) Get insanely rich

#2) Find rich people who think like you

#3) Secretly do old 2-3-4 steps

#4) Make a political party out of your children, make them win by any means necceseary (this could a few elections)

#5) Then let the revolution begin.

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Well, if there would be a time machine, we could get these (Spartan soldiers, Janissaries, Shaolin monks) in an arena to fight. Nevertheless these classes are trained in a way to achieve perfect machines.
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My governor will not have a family. (noone gonna abuse his reputaion or powers)
My governor's needs covered by state all the time. (dont need to work a "2nd job" or stack wealth)
My governor thinks worldly things are vain. (cant be seduced by a hot person)

[tricky77puzzle]

Well, although your idea is sound, it's still not feasible. It's human nature to think that worldly things are good. It's kind of like the permanent boot-up ROM that a computer has. You could theoretically remove the parts, but they can still be abused.

[hitmanblood]

First of all spartans are only real soldiers or perfect soldiers and let's leave it at that. There is hall bunch of reasons why it is so!

Shaolin monks in my personal opinion cannot be regarded as soldiers in many ways.

And janissaries are far from perfect. They lacked organizational skills and loyalty above all. And one more important thing in such bunch I would prefer more legionaries then janissaries.

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Then to continue let's assume someone gets so rich and gets similar idea. And he sucedes who in the world would give such kind of power to some others. Such people are extremely rare and they don't hold on to power for long time. This is one thing that needs to be considered. And how would you secure someone from overthrowing them from the trone when they reach it.

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One more interesting thing I wanted to mention that in considering this you mention several times My Government this in itself already puts you against your own idea and then we come to the thing that tricky mentioned it is human nature no wonder why we haven't made something like that before. It is almost impossible that something like this will happen.

There is larger opportunity that you would see several powerful families take control and solve poverty not because they like people but because there is very simple reason why? And that is because they would like to hold people in submission and if everyone are satisfied and you are making profits and power then noone will rise and make unrest. The stakes that this would occur are far more possible then the thing you are proposing.

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This is edit:

O I have started new discussion about soldiers so we may continue there not to interrupt this topic anymore.

Edited by hitmanblood, 26 May 2008 - 02:41 PM.

[Janissary]

I know Shaolin monks arent soldiers. But their training is though as them. I said those examples to counter tricky77puzzle, I believe it's possible to remove those parts from humans and those are the examples.

I'll post my thoughts about janissaries in your thread :) clearly you dont know them :):)

Quote

...let's assume someone gets so rich and gets similar idea. And he sucedes who in the world would give such kind of power to some others...

I would give up. By the way, saying my governor... i didnt mean i own it. It just defining it to prevent confusing.

By the way, did you noticed my sub-topic is "My utopia".

Anyway, I know its impossible so it will take some time to accomplish it. But hey, I said perfect system, the perfect! I really believe a human cannot rule, so for a perfect system we need something unhuman. Either my brainwashed rulers or aliens :)

[adriantc]

I don't understand... Your idea is to build a ruling elite, born and bread for one reason - to rule! So basically that isn't a democracy since they are not chosen by the people from the people. But although not a democracy you still keep a parliament (or some form of it). I fail to see what it's is purpose. What I understand is that the main criteria for being part of that ruling elite is to be smart. Why not make it a dictatorship, which is far more efficient then democracy. The only disadvantage of a dictatorship is that is can easily become a tyranny (a thing that happened may times in history). But since you consider that elite to be the absolute best people to rule there is no reason for why you should not entrust them with absolute power? Does my thinking have a flaw?

Edited by adriantc, 27 May 2008 - 06:02 PM.

[Janissary]

Yes, you are right. This isnt a democracy.
The parliament is there to prevent possible corruption, you see you train many best people so if one of them begin to act selfish others cant stop him.

This system is kinda an elder's council

[adriantc]

Some form of a council and of a ruling elite is a great idea, but it has one major flaw. In a few years or in a generation the ruling elite will become like a state in state, considering themselves better then the people they are supposed to serve. That by itself is not a major problem, but the fact that they will loose contact with the ones they serve. If you don't know the problems of society first hand how are you going to fix them?
In other words this ruling elite much feel as if it is only a part of society, another wheel in the machine that is society. The communists though they are above the ordinary people - while people starved they enjoyed luxury... That kind of system is doomed from the very start!

Edited by adriantc, 29 May 2008 - 10:34 AM.