27 replies to this topic

[amirborna]

I thought about this and I like it. You may disagree or agree or may like 1 or 2, but still read it and tell me what you think.

Spy
---


Sapper Replacement
Electronic Canceler:
-------------------

At a limited distance away, you must look at the
sentry, teleporter, or dispenser and you can use
your electronic canceler. It will freeze the sentry,
dispenser, or teleporter for an X amount of seconds (I suggest 10)
and once it is over, the engineer's building unfreezes.
Engineer can still repair
Now valve can do whatever they want with this but, I like this:

You can have a regain timer, almost like your cloak but once
you use it, it goes to 0 and resets again. Maybe every 20-30 seconds or whatever

With this you cannot actually break their building, but
rather create an opportunity for your team member to break
it for you. This will allow the spy to do more teamwork
than they already do and is a nice replacement that is not
too weak or too strong.

==========================

Magnum Replacement
Sleeper Gun:
--------------

With this gun I thought up, it can be pretty cool...Basicly I want
it like this:

Every shot you shoot someone with your gun they lose health of course, but
also slow down 2% with every shot you shoot. This effect stays on for maybe 10-20
seconds or whatever valve wants, but with this gun, you can create wonderful
opportunities to not only help yourself catch up to them and stab them in the
back but help your teammates in a variety of situations from runners to incoming
enemies and the such. if 2% isn't good enough, make it more. Whatever valve wants!

===========================

Butterfly Knife Replacement
Cionide Injection:
-----------------

I was thinking and I thought up of this. It's pretty cool I think.
This of course only works from the back, BUUUUUUT it has a twist

I thought up of doing something new here

It's range is point blank, you have to be pretty much touching them.

Your weapon is a needle with the deadly liquid scionide which is 100% death instantly

The model can be a small syringe with green/blue liquid bright glowing liquid inside of it

OK..HERE IS THE TWIST, ITS NEW BUT IT WORKS

When you attack your opponent, you don't lose your disquise!!!!!!!!

Instead, when you have your Cionide Injection needle out, you look like the enemy
but instead of holding their default weapon, the enemy can see you holding the needle
--Remember the needle has glowing neon liquid that lights up in the dark so it should be
pretty easy to spot

When you have your gun / sapper, you go back to having the default enemy weapon, but not the injection!

I think this creates much newer opportunities

And if valve wants like the 25% slow down thing for the ubersaw, they
can add a little thing to this such as if an enemy pyro burns you, the needle explodes
and causes yourself to get an X amount of damage such as 50% ECT

This makes you further act like a spy and take it out at the perfect time, kill, and switch back

They can make a new sound for each character that gets injection, like a soft moan or something like that

===============

I think my ideas create a new gameplay for the spy that can actually help out the teammate.
You may disagree with my idea or like it, but this is my suggestion!

[ivantoar]

At least, friendly fire is a must. Why? I like being a spy too, but everytimes somebody sees a teammate, they shoot to perform a spycheck (me too). And spy is easily known because they cannot disguise to somebody with a secondary weapons (probably you'll know this, who doesnt?)

[iGuest]

I like the electronic canceller, because this is the only alternative you used that actually adds something nice to the game without ruining it.

See that as a compliment please.



-reply by Nickolas

[iGuest]

The electronic canceler seems like a good idea, since it lets you work with your team. However, your forgetting that a regular sapper can take a building down for more than 10 seconds, have no charge time, And damage the building. The only thing you've really added is the ability to do it from far away, which doesn't make sense since the spy's main objective is to sneak behind enemy lines. I have seen another incarnation of this idea (the magnetic sapper) that takes the building down but does no damage, letting another team mate destroy it.

As for the sleeper gun, it sounds like a good idea, but when you think about it, the player on the other end would have their game lagged up while the get shot or stabbed in the back. That doesn't seem very fun.

Your last idea, the sionide injection, seems a little awkward. I have an idea that's similar to this.

My Ideas:

Revlover = Silencer

The gun does more that just make you shots silent. You enemy will still see their health drop, but they won't be able to tell where the shot is coming from. And, you can also shoot while cloaked or disguised. While your disguised, it will appear that your diguise is firing their weapon. But because your enemy is taking damage, it might be a give away. Also, while you cloaked, each shot lowers you cloak bar, but the weapon it's self raises you max cloak to give you more time to shoot. The weapon would have to b very weak so that you don't pick of enemies while they have no idea where you are.

Sapper = Spy Bombs

This idea may not b very good, but I think it opens up a lot of options. Instead of sappers, you can now place a bomb. You can only have one at a time so that you don't place them every where. You can place the spy bombs anywhere, walls, floors, engie buildings, and even allies or enemies. The bomb is set off by bumping into it or being shot at. And, since you can only have one, clicking fire while the bomb is deployed cloaks it. Some examples are:
� Placing one on a damaged enemy building. When the engie comes to repair it, it'll go off from the wrench hit
� Placing one on a dispenser so that an enemy will bump into it and set it off.
� Placing one on the floor around a corner so the enemy will step on it
� Placing one on a friendly scout, have them run into an enemy group, get shot, and set off the bomb
� Placing one on a friendly spy have them cloak, run behind enemy lines, get shot and set it off
Most of these only work if the bomb is cloaked so that the enemy doesn't notice it

Knife = Pen Knife

This weapon, like the injection, can be used while your disguised. It doesn't kill from behind, but instead take their disguise. To use it, you must hold down the fire button. You'll stab them with the knife, and begin to do damage. As you kill them, you pen will fill with ink. Once you've killed them (you pen is full) they die, but they leave no sign of death except a pool of ink that fades quickly. But when you kill with this pen, you immediately take the enemy's disguise. You take their name AND their weapon. This way, you can be a medic with a medigun or an Engie with a wrench.

Please give some me some feed back.

-reply by cmooney13

[iGuest]

Pyros are tooooo powerful
My Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

Ok first I want know cant you do something with the bloody pyros and people just shooting you and well then they know your a spy pyros are just too overpowered I think they don't need any skill and they can just fire at the air and ok look theres a spy and I want to get my revenge back on pyros so just go mad on the spy updates Please people rdy see me when I'm a spy so whats the point of making it more like a enemy spy?... I'm tired of getting shot burned and killed by a wrench atleast make his tux better or something and don't make the person slow they still always kill me I dunno what they were thinking with the stupid heavy update...

-reply by Brett

[AbdurahmanL]

Well, your spy bomb is basically an ied, a mine, or a suicide weapon. It may be a good idea, but who knows if anyone from Valve is reading this!

Why don't we just give the spy a knife that he can throw? Maybe give him 3 butterfly knifes, and he can throw them to backstab someone from 10 feet away. What do you guys think?

[iGuest]

My own suggestions
My Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

I honestly really like and dislike a lot of the above comments and creations.

I've been working on them for a while, so hopefully they make sense, I actually helped think up some of the weapons (boxing gloves and sandvich) for the Heavy update. Although I was not the original concept creator, I helped improve the idea.

Here are my spy weapon suggestions:

First lets look at what the spy's goals are in the team and what he has to work with. Then lets think of some trade offs, always give people a good trade off, either this or that.

Example for Heavy, you can slow people down but keep them in your sights longer with the new minigun but have less power, or have lots of power, but no slowing effects.

Example for Pyro, you can either have the ability to throw objects back at players and do good damage all around, or be poor head on but devastating if attacking from behind.


So, the Spy's goals are:

To infiltrate enemy team undetected, kill and destroy any buildings and open pockets for friendly team members to attack from and take out threats that could destroy your team.

So lets look at his current weapons...

#1 Revolver

Loud pistol that does a minimum of 25damage at long range, and max of 60 at point blank. It only has 6 shots in it.

#2 Electro Sapper

Sapping unit that slowly drains a sentry until it gets destroyed at 6 or 9 seconds after applying it.

#3 Butterfly Knife

Kills instantly from behind but raises disguise, terrible 30 damage from front or sides.

#4 Cloak

Limited invisibility from all players that drains when used and regenerates when not in use. However regeneration takes a long time.

#5 Disguise case

Allows for Disguises to be used, but they break upon attacking exposing you as you really are, a Spy.



My new weapon ideas that will help emphasize the Spy�s goals
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

#1 SBDP- Silent But Deadly Pistol---------------------------------

This is a shiny silver metal pistol that is given to the top spies. Its size is similar to the Scout�s pistol, but much longer in length due to its oversized custom made 8� silencer to allow maximum stealth shots. Due to the size and color of the gun, an enemy can recognize easily the skill level and respect of his new found opponent.

The SBDP is designed to allow the Spy to take shots without the victim knowing the location of the shooter. It also has a 100% critical guaranteed for shots to the victims back. The pistol however due to the caliber change, can only hold 3 shots. The pistol bullets are much stronger than the normal ones designed for the revolver, but carry a damage rate of 25-30 at long range, 40-50 at mid range and 60-70 at close to point blank. The SBDP is only given to those with great marksman skills since its very low ammo capacity requires great accuracy.

#2 TIP- Toxic Injection Pen--------------------------------------

The TIP is the newest instrument in a Spies arsenal. This newly created device, invented at HQ, is filled with a highly poisonous serum that numbs all senses until shutting down the brain functions. In other words, the victim will become disoriented and black out/die within a matter of seconds. All while being stylishly disposed of from the top of the shiny aluminum cap to the color of the fluorescent green pen all the way to the end containing a peculiarly sharp shiny point.

The TIP however is a risk. It, unlike the butterfly knife, does not kill instantly so victims may retaliate and possibly kill the user. To use, simply inject the poison into the enemies back. The enemy�s eye sight will immediately become impaired, and will most likely shriek and complain about being stung or bit by something.

He will then proceed to see everything in grey after the first second, followed by spots after 3 seconds and then by death at 5. Although the product has been perfected, the poison takes exactly 5 seconds to cause death and has been known to radiate a green glow on its victims. The victim may be treated within that time period so be careful.

The advantage is that your disguise, although obvious due to the Pen�s stylish fluorescent green color when holding or using, will allow the spy to poison his victims without losing his disguise.

(In other terms, think of a sapping device for enemy players instead of sentries)

Warning, do not attempt at side or front stabs as the serum wont be effective enough as a full dose. The victim will only recieve minimal damage per stab (30 per stab)


#3 Electro Clamp------------------------------------

The Clamp is rather small, looks similar to the electro sapper, but is made from a titanium alloy and has two large arms that squeeze the clamp onto the building. Impossible to pry off, the Electro Clamp is one of the hottest items on any Spy's wish list from HQ.

The Electro Clamp, similar to the Electro Sapper, as it only effects buildings. This unit does drain Electricity from a building; however it doesn�t drain enough power to destroy the structure. Instead the Clamp shuts down the functions of the building and redirects the power into the Cloaking Wrist Watch of a spy via a wireless connection.

The Electro Clamp cannot be knocked off like a normal Electro Sapper. Due to the immense electrical energy surge the clamp creates, it will burn out after 5 seconds of use and fall off. Engineers are unlucky enough to not have the tools to deactivate the Clamp once it is installed. However, the Clamp does not damage the building and has no effect on its health. So the plus side is the Engineer can continue to repair the building even when it is clamped.

When applied to a unit, the building shuts down for 5 seconds. A tremedous grinding will be heard, similar to a minigun's wind up as the clamp squeezes the building. The power is then redirected into the wrist watch of the Spy who applied it. This recharges the Spies cloak so long as the clamp is active.


-reply by Krits

[iGuest]

Reply to all
My Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

I really like some of your ideas the long ones have some good and some bad. I like the injection idea and the silenced gun. I think that by earning more achievements the spy should have a longer cloak time or the bar to refill faster, alternatively there could be an unlockable (like the heavy's Sandvich) which does no damage but can refil your cloak and health. What do you think?

-reply by RoflCopter :)

[room2593]

Yeah... I think that spies have it hard. Pyros have nearly endless ammo to throw around because their lives are so short; they're constantly getting more ammo. Your four minute excursion into the enemy base can end by a single man with a flamer hitting you once because he felt like firing at the air. But the spies also are one of the biggest pain in the butt people to play against. If the enemy has a talented spy, they can be death on wheels. I play as a medic most of the time (because everybody that tries to, sucks) and Spies are aggravating. I constantly have my medigun out, so I can't check to see if the dude is actually a spy. I just heal and run. So I die. And I die, and I die some more.

If you play the spy right, they can be really destructive.
I really like the pen knife idea... It would really give a boostie up to the spy, and make it really hard to tell who is a spy and who isn't. But then, I don't think that Valve is paying attention anyway. So whatever.

[iGuest]

Spy Update
My Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

Here's my inqueries, and I thought I would have them around the same calibur you guys hav been posting. :D

---PP7----
This gun does 100% critical hits from behind, and averages 300 damage with every bullet, and has an ammo capacity equivalent or greater than the medics needle gun. When you fire it you don't lose your disguise, and you gain back all the damage in health. The gun is also automatic, like a machinegun, and has a reload time of one second.

---Spy Sapper II----
This sapper sticks to the defense structure, and does not come off until the turret/whatever is destroyed. This can also be put onto other players to kill them. You can attach these while cloaked.

---Swiss Army Knife---

This kills everyone on the map with one swing. It can be used while cloaked. It also refills the cloak meter. You do not even have to be anywhere near someone to kill them with this knife. It swings faster than the scouts baseball bat. You don't lose your disguise when you swing this weapon, and you drain ink out of them or no reason at all like a complete moron who lives in a world of cartoons that break the 4th wall.

See :D I responded just like you guys

-reply by The French Tickler

[iGuest]

I approve of lethal injections.
My Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

A lot of these sound really unbalanced. The one I like the most is the injection. I like how you keep the disguise, and I like how the trade off is that the enemy is basically doomed but gets a few seconds to either get revenge or go for help. Maybe being healed by a doctor or dispenser while you die could do something like slow it down to a third, but not save you. The only thing to save the victim should be a medipak or medicine cabinet. Also, what if the sapper or disguise kit was replaced with something that could be used to anti-spy? Counterintelligence is common in reality, so it would make sense in the game. It would change the role into something defensive rather than offensive. I don't have any specific ideas, but I just thought I'd put that out there.

-reply by Tuco

[iGuest]

Krits, some very good ideas, but... The spy is a hit and run charcter (am I right) and kills people in a instance, ie badwater cart and 4 people on it, you backstab them all and they all die, but with your toxic injecion pen idea they would probably realise and you might only kill 1 person in return for your death(it would only be good on snipers). I think the spys weapons need to be INPROVED not REPLACED. Maybe like a revolver that crits more often (people hate crits but it will help ALOT), a knife (that someone mentioned before) you can throw, and you could improve the amount of cloak and not change the sapper, because the sapper is fine how it is. If you like my ideas or dislike them please tell me, and any improvements would be helpful

-TehHendu

-reply by TehHendu

[iGuest]

Also I have been reading some other sites and have made a few more ideas

Weapon #1

Revolver replaced by: THE GRAPEL GUN

**Can't be used when invisible, and also breaks disguise**

Basically, you point it at any wall or ceiling, shoot and it will pull you up and hold you there for 30 seconds. Press jump to fall back down. The Grapel Gun would only go as far as say the start of the bridge to the enemy building on 2Fort.But I have added a twist. It is a instant kill from the front only but takes 10 seconds to take out of the body and wind up, the spy cannot do anything while he is doing this and is very susceptible to attack (just like the heavys sandvich)

Weapon #2

Sapper replaced by: THE INVISIBLE SAPPER

**Can't be used when invisible, but doesn't break disguise**

Well the Invisible Sapper is almost the same as the normal sapper except it cannot be seen by the enemey, except for the engineer, but your own team can see it. Also the engineer doesn't say "spy sapping my sentry" (etc) alerting his teammates. This can be very helpful as the other team is unaware of your presance.

Weapon #3

Sapper replaced by: THE THROWING BUTTERFLY KNIFE

**Can't be used when invisible, and also breaks disguise**

Ever been stalking someone and cant catch up? Well the Throwing Knife is for you! If you press left and right mouse buttons at the same time it throws your knife 2 meters infront of you. You cant taget people from long distances because it doesn't have a long range. It only Instant kills from directly behind and takes 3 seconds to pull out of of your victims back. It still acts the same as the normal butterfly knife aswell.

These are my ideas

-TehHendu



-reply by TehHendu

[iGuest]

Yeah with that injection thing mebe it could be like... You get 4 cartridges or whatev then when you inject an enemy they slow down, vision blur maybe or even halucinations D: like see enemies or friendlies that aren't really there and hp degen, kinda like a pyros burn
Obviously you can get rid of these symptoms via a medi-pack etc.
And they wear off eventually by themselves
Dunno, it's 5AM and I can't think straight XD

-reply by Drummaah Boii

[iGuest]

I have done some thinking and here are my new ideas

Weapon # 1 - Grapel Gun replaces the Revolver

**Attacking removes disguise, not usable during cloak**

Has a range of around 4 to 5 metres.

Basically, you point it at any wall or ceiling, shoot and it and it will pull you up and hold you there. Press jump to fall back down. As Valve said, players rarely look up unless prompted, this would greatly increase viable hiding spots for spies, and also make for quick getaways. This weapon can kill if you shoot from the front but takes 7 seconds to pull out of your victims body leaving you in danger as you cannot move during this procedure. The gun takes 3 seconds to reload (if you miss when shooting)

...

Weapon # 2 - Invisible Sapper replaces The Sapper

**Attacking does not remove disguise, not usable during cloak**

When sapping a structure the Engineer always alerts his team by saying "Spy sapping my (insert structure name here)" automatically and the team will also see a sentry pointing down with a large sapper on it and they will know its a spy. So when you sap with the Invisible Sapper the sentry will look like nothing has happened to it (except for flames) and will not shoot anyone and will still die. Your team will see the sentry with a sapper on it and only the engie who made the sentry will also know but no one else will realise its sapped.
In esence the engie wont say spy sapping my sentry, the enemy wont see the sentry with a sapper on it and the sentry will still die, so its almost like the old sapper.

Weapon # 3 - The Flamer knife replaces The Knife

**Attacking removes disguise, not usable during cloak**

If you backstab a enemy Pyro then are flamed by another pyro in the same life you can go into cloak you will only burn for 2 seconds and the flames disapear. The only disadvantege is you only have 9 seconds of Cloak.

If you like my new ideas or what to give me constructive feedback please tell me.

-TehHendu


-reply by TehHendu

[iGuest]

I think that some of these ideas are good, but most are bad.I disagree with the poster above saying that the updates should "IMPROVE" not "REPLACE" the current weapons. I think that the updates need to give "ANOTHER OPTION".Some people use natascha, some people don't. Some people use the backburner, some people don't. Some people use kritzkreig, some people don't. Guns like the syringe gun, boxing gloves, and axestinguisher are exceptions. So I think that maybe -one- weapon should be a necessity upgrade, but not all 3.I think that most of these new ideas are completely stacked one way. No one would choose a stationary knife over a throwable butterfly knife. The weapons have to be balanced, and have an equal number of flaws with benefits -- a choice must be involved.

~*PEN INJECTOR THING*~

I really think the pen injection idea is interesting. But like one mentioned, I think that you'd only be able to get one kill off of it before people noticing. My suggestion is that you could have some sort of spin off of it. Maybe like instead of the symptoms hitting immediately, it hits them in 5 seconds, and kills them 5 more seconds after that. This would allow multiple stealthy kills, before a victim screams from the death. A drawback to this would be that if the spy dies, the poison becomes nullified. The spy should start laughing after poison is activated, pointing out the the victims that they need to kill a nearby target and his location. This idea in my head is cool; as I imagine spies quickly dropping by and injecting and then retreating away laughing while the victims try to kill him before it's too late.

~*PATCHED CLOAK*~

I don't think that this should be part of the spy update, but a patch. Like the patch to help balance out the pyro as they were too stacked upon release of the backburner. I think that if the spy get burned, the fire should instantly disappear after cloaking or disquising. I don't know if that's too stacked or not, but I think that they should do -something- to the cloak. Pyros just ruin the experience for spies.

But yeah. Those are just my thoughts.-reply by Squipe (Steam name)

[iGuest]

Basically, here are my views on the spyName: Silenced PistolReplaces: RevolverRemoves Disguise: YesUse Cloaked: NoDescription: Makes no noise when shot. Otherwise exactly like revolver.Ammo: 6 bullets per clip, 6 clips per lifeName: TripWireReplaces: SapperRemoves Disguise: NoUse Cloaked: NoDescription: Must be attached to a wall. Alerts team by a flashing icon on the screen when crossed.Ammo: 3 active at any time. (Similar to sticky bombs)Name: SyringeReplaces: Butterfly KnifeRemoves Disguise: YesUse Cloaked: NoDescription: Poisons enemy. Vision is impaired and health decreases.Ammo: 3 per life-reply by gmxgeek

[iGuest]

Spy Disguise vs PyroMy Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

I think it should be simply as long as the spy is in disguise the pyro cannot hurt him with his flamethrower but when he is out he can. Of course this is a disadvantage and would need further thought but it is far 2 easy to be caught out by pyro's as a spy. The only time a pyro could attack the spy with his flamethrower is if he is out of disguise or has set a sapper on a friendly machine. Otherwise spy is close to pointless when a pyro is defending. Please give opinions

-reply by BearMan

[iGuest]

my idea(s)My Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

I think it would be usefull if like iGuest said that it would take about 5~7 seconds to take affect and they just drop dead (that would replace the knife) so you would beable to get away from the person before they died and you would lose your disguise and not usable during cloak something even better would be if you put something on someone (which is pretty small so other people cant see it too well) where you put it on someone and then it switches what you're holding to a button that when you press kills them and maybe then takes your diguise off (but doesn't when you plant on the person) but if a teammate of them sees it they can shoot it off and it will come off after 20 seconds auto. (<-- maybe) or it could be how far away you are and you can onlny go up to say 30~50 feet away from it and theres a little bar at the bottom center of your screen that shows a count down from 20 seconds or a thing that shows your distance from the person  maybe the first one would be lvl1 or lvl 5 I don't know, and then the second is lvl 10 (or the first one would be lvl 1 the second one with the time lvl 5 and the second one with the distance be lvl 10) and I also think that the spy should get a bit more mobility with something or other for suprise attacks or just getting around faster/better  

-reply by heatseeker4474

[iGuest]

responsesMy Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

I think that the bomb/mine is a cool idea but it would fit better in the demo category and the invisible sapper is not too great in my opinion

 

-reply by lala

[iGuest]

Spy ReplacementsMy Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

I agree completely with Squipe. I can completely see the Pen Injector idea coming into play. Some great ideas in here.

 -RedHawk

[iGuest]

My ideaMy Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

As a pretty decent spy, I think some of these would over-power the already strong class. I also think their should be more stealth moves available so here is my idea. You have this injector thing the replaces the knife. With the injector, you get to inject up to 5 enemies with a bug. Then with a right click, everyone you injected is poisoned and will only live for about 7-10 seconds. Drawbacks? If the spy get's too far form any injected target, the bug goes away.(So the spy can't be back at base while five guys died)If the spy is kill during/before the bugs are active, the bugs stop acting.Why use it?Quick fire, so you can infect a group of people (while disguised) and then run and hide.More stealth involve, no hiding forever and getting one kill.Your targets won't know they are bugged until you activate the poison.I think this is still balanced because the five people the spy are poisoning will immediately go after the now running spy, and if you don't hide well, they live. (Don't know if the spy should be able to cloak during the poison period.) After this a successful attack, the team will be very spy paranoid for a while so two attacks will to hard to pull in a row. So what do you think? I think some minor tweaks would help.

-reply by themarcuslov

[iGuest]

how about a virusMy Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

How about instead of the pen, that injects poison, a jar that contains a deadly virus or toxic chemicals, that chokes anyone within a set distance. The area would become all green with the toxic fumes and dissapates after say, 10-15 seconds.

Drop the jar, and run for your life, because the jar dropping would make a sound like breaking glass, giving them warning to look for the perpetrator before they die. The medics needle gun could deliver the anti-virus. ???

what do you think. Feel free to take/modify my idea

-reply by caps lock

 

[iGuest]

My Spy Ideas (the Best)My Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

New sapper: Hacker Sapper

Disadvantage: Only disables (doesn't do damage), but stays on indefinitely until engy hits w/ wrench or SG is destroyed. This will encourage more "good" Spies who kill the enemy engineer and finish off the SG themselves. Also more teamwork is encouraged since the sapper won't destroy the SG by itself.

Advantage: If the spy gets enough kills/assists/destruction points, the Spy gets a "hacker" sapper which will TAKE OVER AN ENEMY SG so it shoots the enemy instead. This can turn the tide in a battle even faster than an uber-charge. Half a team can get wiped out before they know what's happening. The SG remains hacked until destroyed, or an enemy engy finds a way to wrench the SG (such as if the SG is right around a corner). The spy can get killed by his "own" SG similar to an engy, but there's no friendly fire so his team doesn't have to worry about crossfire. This powerful effect must have its limitations:

• Only skilled spies will fill their hacker/power meter up because it takes multiple kills in a row, and it won't happen very often. It takes 8 points to fill the meter, where 2 pts are awarded for each backstab and 1 pt is awarded for each normal kill/assist/equipment destruction. In this case, 4 backstabs will fill the meter, or 3 backstabs and a couple revolver kills/disabled SG kill assists etc. A lvl 3 SG kill (sap then shoot) will be worth 2 points.   
• The Hacker Sapper takes 2 seconds to hack the enemy SG, so the enemy engy can disable the Hacker Sapper first if he's right there. If the Spy's Hacker Sapper is enabled, he can hit his "last-used disguise" key to toggle the Hacker Sapper off/on so he can disable other SG's before hacking the one of his choice. 
• After filling his hacker meter, the Spy might not be able to find an enemy SG before getting killed (whereas the Medic usually has teammates around to use the uber-charge on).
• Since the Spy can't build or repair his hacked SG, it will be more vulnerable than a typical SG with an Engy babysitting it. The advantage of the hacked SG is surprise, and near- instant passage for friendlies
• SGs will shoot each other, so a Spy should try to disable other nearby SGs before hacking the best one

Other implications to consider: Should an enemy Spy be able to sap the hacked SG (2 sappers at once)? If a normal sapper is on a SG, can the new disable-only/Hacker Sapper also be placed and vise-versa? If so, a Hacker Sapper should remove/disable a normal sapper upon activating. The Spy's teammate Engy will be able to repair the Spy's hacked SG and restock the ammo as usual, without knocking off the hacker sapper.

Other interesting ramifications:

• A team can quickly establish a forward base if a Spy hacks a SG and there's a couple friendy Engineers around to build more stuff
• You might see an Engineer get Uber-Charged so he can knock off a Hacker Sapper and get the SG back
• If both types of sapper can be placed at once, then 2 Spies can lay down a normal sapper followed by a disable sapper, forcing an Engy to wrench his SG 4 times before removing the normal sapper (sappers get removed in reverse order). Useful against Engineers with great Spy defense. However, a couple of Spies laying down both sappers on a large group of Engy structures could be devastating, so there should probably be a limit of one sapper per SG (logically, you could say there's only room for one sapper to fry the circuitry of the SG/disp/tele). This would also keep enemy Spies from easily killing a Spy's hard-earned hacked SG with a normal sapper- not fun when the Spy can't remove it like an Engy. On the plus side, allowing 2 sappers per structure would encourage some Spy-Spy synergy, akin to a pair of Medics using uber-saws. 2 spies could sap lots of equipment and build up their hacker meters, but most likely they would just get killed.

• A Spy can wait for an Engy to level up his SG then hack-sap after the Engy goes to get more metal. The Engy thinks it's a normal sapper and quickly runs back to wrench it, only to get blow to bits by his own gun. Hilarious

New knife: Electro Knife

Disadvantage: 25% slower cooldown time between strikes (actual strike speed is unchanged).

Advantage: Each backstab or slash increases cloak meter (hack meter is filled for kills regardless of knife). The blade draws electrical energy from the enemy's body to charge the wristwatch. Each backstab increases cloak meter by 25%, slashes only 10%. Perhaps if the cloak meter is already filled, the knife would then power up the hack meter faster. Spies will always want a fast backstab, so this would maintain that need while providing other benefits. Perhaps the Electro Knife would be required to power up the Hacker Sapper (more "logical").

As for the revolver, I like Krits' silencer idea, although I think 100% crit chance from behind would be too powerful since most classes would die in a couple hits. 

-reply by The Dude (Robert Weekes)

 

[iGuest]

ThoughtsMy Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

I like your canceler idea. But what if it was like a jammer instead, where u have to point it at what you wanna jam. And it would have like a cool down and charge up like the cloak(but no metal pick ups). Maybe a laser can indicate the enemy where you are. I say this becuase ever alternate weapon has to have a disadvantage, with the sapper u have to go right up to it(chances of dieing high) but it sticks and destroys the building unless an engie removes it. With your idea even tho it just freezes, it would seem to be cheap because 20 seconds is a long time to destroy something. With a jammer a spy has to be exposed to jam it and that would be its disadvantage.

-reply by frank