48 replies to this topic

[solankyno1]

Dear friends,
As everyone know there is new hosting credit system has been introduced. May be some persons had liked it as me and there can be some who did not liked it. So tell your choice. It will be better if you write some lines about your view also in the post with voting in the poll.

READ THE DETAILS HERE : http://www.trap17.co...le-no-6147.html

[cragllo]

I think that it is a very good idea, it is a good way to keep track of active members and delete unused accounts, and reducing server load.

It will also encourage members to post more often and make fuller posts too,
The is a downside too, people will bable on to reach 300 characters.

[OpaQue]

Hi,

This poll will really help to know the views of the members regarding this new system. I dont really now how members will respond to it. But, I feel that this system will definately help to cut down on SPAM.
I feel proud about my forums and my admins, mods.. I go and check my competitors site which show large number of Signed up members 5000+ members, and thousands of posts. But i still pity them bout thier community and the amount of Spam they have. When I introduce people to my website, the first reaction I get is, you got one big bunch of quality members there. How did you manage to get them ?
Anyway, I would sincerely respect your views and opinions about this system.

Regards,
OpaQue

[tasty]

i think that it is a very good idea but just one question if you are away for some reason say a holiday will your credits still go down or will it be frozen till you come back and secong if it kept going down would you have to make a lot of posts before you go away to make up for the time. Also how can you find how many credits you have

[OpaQue]

Please read the following post which will give you more idea about the Hosting credit system.

http://www.trap17.com/forums/trap17-file-n...getnewpost.html

This page will try to explain why we did it. Some advantages and disadvantages.
http://www.trap17.co...le-no-6186.html

-OpaQue

[xboxrulz]

I think 300 characters are a bit too much :S. Maybe, you can try 150 - 200 characters. The system is kinda buggy I guess because I have already posted 5 posts by now.

xboxrulz

[Mario]

For me i think its not that good. I am the only one who said no. I've been a member of community for a couple of months i am not as active as i was in the begining when i started.
- I am already a member of 5 communities so i am kind of busy.
- I am not here for the post count or how big is my posts. The bigger the better?
- I am here to help people, some of my posts can be 2 lines or 5 lines. If my posts help some than i've achieve my goals.

It my be great system for most of the members but every single member have different problems.

[no9t9]

the simple fact is that quantity does not equal quality. why even bother implementing a character count at all? you've got some mods calling posts spam simply because it is under "the limit". Why not just give spammers warnings and ban them when it gets out of hand? 3 strikes rule. Put it in as part of the profile, how many strikes you have... and maybe you can work off the strikes if there haven't been any complaints for a certain period of time.

I just think forced character/line minimums for posts will not stop spammers. They will just keep typing. Quality posters will always make good posts and spammers will always spam.

Also, I would like to know what this board considers spam. What if I say thanks to someone for helping me? That's basically 2 words (thank you). Is showing appreciation spam? Do I really have to make a BS post like:

thanks for helping me out cause I am a newb and can't really do anything right. you really helped me a lot and now i can get it done real fast. thanks again. you are really helpful.

^^ that doesn't really say anything... why is it not ok to post short posts? I simply don't get it.

I haven't even gotten into other posts that don't require 300 characters to be useful.

[OpaQue]

no9t9, Your above post reveals that fact that your active only for getting your post count up. This is wierd, why members want their post count to rise for a post like "Thank You".

By making a post like that, Are you CONTRIBUTING? The sole purpose of this forum is contribution. You Contribute, and you get hosting. So, now, suppose you make 15 posts, you go on posting Thank you for each one of it. And again expect that to give you hosting credits... this is wierd.

When you Post a message like, "Thanks", "ok", "yes", Our system DOES NOT count it. Because it is not a post or does not help our information base at all. Simple as that. So instead of BLAMING a member for Spamming, we simply DONT count that post and allow you to post it. We dont like deleting every other posts. Its a headache.

And just like you mentioned it out, Yes, next time you want to spam by saying "Thank You", you will have to write nice brief text and thank him. As mentioned, This Rule does make it difficult for Spammers who want to increase post count by saying "Thank You" :-D

Reputation points are there for these small reasons. Say thanks by giving reputation points. That is more valuable than just a small thank you post.

Now you might say that, SMALL POsts necessarily dont mean SPAM. I agree. But, it is a fact and also mentioned earlier that most of the small posts are spam. This is from our own personal experience.

There is yet another downside too. We Do not want to rate members by the number of posts. But we want to rate by the type of post they make. Suppose, you make a good post and did dedicate some extra time for it. Previously, it was considered just a normal post. But now, it is considered more valuable. You get more credits for it.

Revealing a small secret, Some members at trap have so much of hosting credits that they can now remain inactive even for more than a month. And another secret! That list includes You too. (no9t9). The same system which you are blaming has given you so many credits. The above post which you have made has been recognised as a good post by our system. Naturally you recieved points for it.

Believe me, This system is as lienent as it can be. It is very very generous when giving Hosting credits.

:: ONE COMMON MISUNDERSTAND :: A SINGLE HOSTING CREDIT DOES NOT MEAN, ONE EXTRA DAY OF HOSTING. HOSTING CREDITS ARE CONVERTED TO "DAYS". SO WRITING AN ARTICLE CAN GIVE YOU HOSTING CREDITS ENOUGH FOR ONE ENTIRE WEEK OR EVEN MORE THAN THAT.

[OpaQue]

This is Example of a post which is exactly 300 characters in length. This will clear most of the people's misunderstanding. The special characters within post like commas, hypens, spaces etc are all counted. However, the algorithm filters out any other possible methods of spamming. End of the Post

[Florisjuh]

Hummz, 300 seems a bit much, since its on about quantity of a post but about quality :\

[no9t9]

Quote

no9t9, Your above post reveals that fact that your active only for getting your post count up. This is wierd, why members want their post count to rise for a post like "Thank You".

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Trap17 is SOOOO preoccupied by "post count" that you ASSUME all I care about is getting my post count up. If you look at my profile, I have more than enough posts. I don't care if you NEVER count another post again. My message is NOT about POST COUNT. It is about SPAM. Your response to me clearly reveals that YOU are preoccupied with post count.. not me.

I dont care about post count. I just care when I am called a spammer for posting small messages.

Quote

By making a post like that, Are you CONTRIBUTING? The sole purpose of this forum is contribution. You Contribute, and you get hosting. So, now, suppose you make 15 posts, you go on posting Thank you for each one of it. And again expect that to give you hosting credits... this is wierd.

Again, I don't see how making 15 good posts and then saying thank you at the end is not contributing to the community. This is beyond me. I understand that hosting credits should not be given on posts like that but I don't agree when you say it does not contribute to the community. Hence considered as spam.

Quote

And just like you mentioned it out, Yes, next time you want to spam by saying "Thank You", you will have to write nice brief text and thank him. As mentioned, This Rule does make it difficult for Spammers who want to increase post count by saying "Thank You" :-D

If you like your members to keep writing and BS their way to 300, that's your choice. But, personally, I don't like to see people write CRAP. Just get to the point, leave the padding out. With your system, you are simply making spammers write longer spam messages. How does the community benefit from a LONG spam message rather than a SHORT spam message?

Your hosting credit system and post count system will work for determining member activity or inactivity. But I don't think it will work for SPAM. That is my point (and my opinion). By telling people you will count a post and give hosting credits to posts that are 300 characters, you are simply providing a spamming guideline. You are basically telling spammers you will accept spam messages as long as they are 300 characters long..

Edit: Maybe my original post was in the wrong place. It was more about word count and spam rather than the activity and inactivity system. But I replied because I saw the famous "300" character spam meter...

Quote

Believe me, This system is as lienent as it can be. It is very very generous when giving Hosting credits.

I am not asking for a more lienient system. I want to address the issue of spam, short posts, and how mods treat them.

[OpaQue]

First, I did not mean that you are spamming. I am sorry if I have offended you. By saying "you", I was referring to those spammers who are reading the post.

Ok, now about the issue.
You still dont get my point. Why do you think people will prefer to post a Long thank you message rather than a short one. I thought this system will be the best way to tackle spam and also to give genuine post points.

I am trying to make a better solution against spam. The only hitch in the plan that I have already implemented is, Posts which are less than 300 cannot be said to be 100% spam.

Ok, now I did make a better system than this, but I did not implement it because it was complex. The two major issues regarding the post count issue is,
1> An easy interface by which members can understand what it is.
2> A tracking system which checks the post and gives points depending upon it.

The current system and hosting credit system were running in parallel as both had the common 300+ character rule. If we remove that, we can get more complex and effective system but members will have no clue on what basis they are given credits.

Here is the actual system which I had in mind.

There are 5-6 Regular expression filters which first filter the post for bbcodes, extra spaces etc. After that, it is analysed in the following way.

If a post is less than 50-100 characters, we ignore it. Because no genuine post can be so small.
If post is greater than 50 characters, We add a minimum level hosting credit. *So users do recieve something, instead of nothing*. We also increment the post count.
If the post is greater than 300 character, we run the next function which calculates hosting credits depending on the size and quality ( more sets of Regular expressions for determining it ). So that user recieve more for all the contribution they make.

Definately the above system is more advanced and will calculate every post made by members. But the problem is, members will start complaining that "Why the system is showing less amount of credits even after they posted 3-4 messages". Because the new system gives post counts for small posts, but since the post themselves are small, they give a small amount of hosting credits to members.

The current system does not have this problem as the posts count and Credits both are given only if post is>300.

Also, it will be hard for us to tell members to make X amount of posts because we have no way to predict what kind of posts that particular member is going to post.

With all the above problems, it is obvious there will be a lot of misunderstanding and bad faith. And we cannot afford to lose the trust of our members. So, even though the current system does has small limitations, it is quite effective for controlling spam and assigning proper hosting credits.

[Hamtaro]

I like the hosting credit system! It helps to keep better track of inactive members. Also, some spammers (not all) wouldn't go through the trouble of getting 300 characters in a post, so that stops the spammers that are lazy. The 300 character limit is a good idea. However, that's my opinion. People can have many different ones.

[Thunder]

I think its pretty cool how Admin can come up with something like this. It does prevent spamming and it will be more challenging for the people who want to get host but then stop posting when they have the hosting. That happends alot and this prevents that which is great. I dont even know how much is 300 characters in here cause it doesn't count for you but i estimate lol So if you dont know just make sure you post like 3 lines and up.. i think

[qingtian]

I think the Hosting Credit System is really great, it makes things more organized and straight forward because forum members can now know exactly how long they can remain inactive and how many posts they need to make to keep their account healthy and prevent their account from being suspended or even terminated. At first I thought the 300 characters rule was a bit much, but now it seems pretty fair in a sense that forum members will have to make more meaningful posts and we will see less SPAM and one-liners.

[Too_Hot]

Yh the hosting credits system is a very innovative idea, will keep track of inactive members. I admit i myself was one, but that was because i just had a long period of exams and wasnt allowed to use internet, but now thats over so i now can stay active .

Great Idea by the trap :D

[OpaQue]

Due to the possible objects from members, We have re-constructed our system. We simply cannot let misunderstandings breed..

REMOVED THE 300 POST COUNT SYSTEM. ALL POSTS WILL BE COUNTED. MORE DETAILS AT :
http://www.trap17.co...le-no-6147.html

[Becca]

Somepeople probably dont like it becaue they aint active innit...
Well i dont mind doesn't change anything XCEPT SUSPENDS you if your inactive.... no worries this is a cool script by a cool person...
Hope there will be more new improvements to trap...i will be waiting ...

[wassie]

i have full confident in Opaque he will get everything perfect,
and that he removed the 300 characters post count i personally think is kinda a good idea. because i usually make a post that is straith to the point... and not so long...

an anyway there was a little bug in it.... not really a bug but still, people just quoted allot so those characters would also count... that way it was easy to get posts

[NeXDesigns]

I love the new system, it should cut down on spam, but it does have one flaw, some people may start making wondering posts where they quickly get offtopic.
I think this is also good on the server, old accounts that are inactive, get deleted and make room for new accounts and the ones who need it the most. (like me)

[alperuzi]

The page link sent via email says I have 2-3 days left, the main forum index says I have 6.69 days left. Which one is correct?

[OpaQue]

wassie, on Jan 26 2005, 04:18 PM, said:

i have full confident in Opaque he will get everything perfect,
and that he removed the 300 characters post count i personally think is kinda a good idea. because i usually make a post that is straith to the point... and not so long...

an anyway there was a little bug in it.... not really a bug but still, people just quoted allot so those characters would also count... that way it was easy to get posts

Dont worry, I have taken care of most of the things... The script filters the post too.

Quote

The page link sent via email says I have 2-3 days left, the main forum index says I have 6.69 days left. Which one is correct?

The one on the Forum page is the right one. So be happy

[no9t9]

OpaQue, on Jan 26 2005, 09:45 AM, said:

Dont worry, I have taken care of most of the things... The script filters the post too.

I'm glad you took out the 300 character limit cause it was way too many. That is the right decision. I don't think less than 300 characters means spam and inactivity. The following is a quote from your previous posts

Quote

If a post is less than 50-100 characters, we ignore it. Because no genuine post can be so small.

I'm glad that you realize that this is untrue. Check out this thread http://www.trap17.co...le-no-5758.html

I made a post that was 83 characters long including spaces and the period. I think it was a genuine post and certainly helpful to the person who had the problem. Just shows that small posts are not spam and deserve *some* credit.

Again, you are making the right decisioin and I am glad that you are listening.

[xboxrulz]

so, now I only need to type 10 Roman-alphabetical characters in order to gain a post?

If so, that's a better idea and it will decrease my brain load while posting. I don't now need to think longer.

P.S: I try not spamming. I think Trap17 is a great community

Thanks,
xboxrulz