31 replies to this topic

[Baniboy]

Well this is for all you guys who belive in evolution. Religious people can post too! But try to think evolution is real while doing your post and keep ythe point of view right .

I watched this movie "idiocrazy yestarday and I've just been thinking of this.

Now that it's not the fastest, smartest or the strongest who get laid and have children, how will human wisdom, muscles and reactionspeed develop?
When the "right genes" don't have the chanse of forwarding themselves to another generation (I don't mean they don't, I mean a that if a boxer mates with a "boxress" then that "hydrid" mates with another hydrid for thousands of generations it will most likely become a superhuman with super reaction speed and good upper-body muscles. I mean it doesn't happen often enough). When the decision of mating is not made by natural selection.

Well my complain is that smart people aren't obviously popular anymore I wonder if this is going to be moved into the vent section

[truefusion]

Assuming the theory of evolution is true: Look at medical science journals. I don't think it can be said that evolution was ever beneficial, at least from today's observational point of view. You can't pass muscles through genes, unless perhaps the child had a gym inside their mother which it made use of. But that would severely tax the mother of her energy and nutrients more than what the child normally does. Also, intelligence is metaphysical: you can't pass it on through your genes. But imagine if you could pass intelligence through your genes: parenting would be a whole lot easier. xD

With that said, i don't think it can be concluded that natural selection isn't making the decision. According to Darwin, natural selection makes two choices: (1) burdening the organism with something that doesn't benefit the organism, and (2) giving the organism something that will allow it to live till the "next stage." Also, the choices of humans does not mean the choices of natural selection.

Can i stop assuming the theory of evolution is true now?

[Baniboy]

truefusion, on Feb 10 2009, 06:13 PM, said:

Assuming the theory of evolution is true: Look at medical science journals. I don't think it can be said that evolution was ever beneficial, at least from today's observational point of view. You can't pass muscles through genes, unless perhaps the child had a gym inside their mother which it made use of. But that would severely tax the mother of her energy and nutrients more than what the child normally does. Also, intelligence is metaphysical: you can't pass it on through your genes. But imagine if you could pass intelligence through your genes: parenting would be a whole lot easier. xD

With that said, i don't think it can be concluded that natural selection isn't making the decision. According to Darwin, natural selection makes two choices: (1) burdening the organism with something that doesn't benefit the organism, and (2) giving the organism something that will allow it to live till the "next stage." Also, the choices of humans does not mean the choices of natural selection.

Can i stop assuming the theory of evolution is true now?

I didn't mean that muscles pass from generation to generation by genes, I meant the production testosterone, that has been proven to pass through generations.
I don't mean that if your father was a boxer you will be too.

And the idea of "intelligence is not passed on by genes" should be forgot, it is fighting against the whole evolution theory, after all, if it was to be true, we would be as stupid as any one-celled organism. When a certain gene in the human has been combined with another DNA that has that same gene, it has the potential to become a combined one ( no you are not as smart as mother and father combined together, don't even bother to ask ).
Same thing with cancer, it doesn't usually just pop out if the mother AND the father don't have that same gene.

And you can stop assuming now, what i really meant was to keep the right point of view, you don't have to assume anything.

Edited by baniboy, 10 February 2009 - 06:10 PM.

[Digitalidad]

I think natural selection still and will always play a role in evolution. If a baby is born weak or with birth defects it will probably die without mating. Even laws support that insane people can't get married, for example.

Also, it's not that easy for anyone to get a couple nowadays. Females are always selective and they have that kind of hardwired. There's indeed science in their choices. They still choose males because they're physically gifted, for example, altough the main reason for them to pick yo up is something deeper. It has to do with you being or not an Alpha male or behaving or not like one. That's deep and needs a post itself!

[sheepdog]

Evolution and genetics are 2 different things. Genetics is the sience of how combinations of different dna effect the offspring. Evolution is the science of how different species became what they are now, and how they changed or adapted or even stayed the same after centuries of mating. Genetic mutations play a part in evolution, it was probably a genetic mutation that caused polar bears to become white when they originated from brown/grizzly bears.

Quote

intelligence is metaphysical

Ok, I'm not sure where you are coming from on that. Intelligence, just like everything else, is genetic. Stupid parents have stupid children or at any rate, the odds for stupid children are much higher when their parents are stupid. Granted, babies are not going to be using their mothers wombs for a gymnasium, but babies from strong, athletic parents are going to be far more likely to have the genetic predisposition to be strong and healthy. It's all genetic.

I am concerned about the evolution of the human race in its current state. People who could not breed naturally are now producing children threw artificial means. People who are "mentally challenged" are allowed to breed an reproduce, people with illnesses/disease/defects of all sorts are reproducing the next generation of humans. I'm not really sure at all how this will effect the species in the long run. I can't see it being a good thing, that's for sure.

[Baniboy]

sheepdog, on Feb 11 2009, 02:43 AM, said:

Ok, I'm not sure where you are coming from on that. Intelligence, just like everything else, is genetic. Stupid parents have stupid children or at any rate, the odds for stupid children are much higher when their parents are stupid. Granted, babies are not going to be using their mothers wombs for a gymnasium, but babies from strong, athletic parents are going to be far more likely to have the genetic predisposition to be strong and healthy. It's all genetic.

That is what I meant, just couldn't explain it clearly enough (apparently).
But now it's not the "smartest, strongest and the fastest" who get to breed but actually everyone.

digitalidad, insane people can't get married? what kind of law is that, I'm not too familiar with the law system in your country but at least here in finland everyone has the right to get married. I've seen mentally retarded people getting married.

But no, natural selection is not always making the decision, people who have bad genetic diseases can survive it and breed, babys who are week don't die, because of a good hospital system. People who have cancer don't always die, I'm not saying they should r anything, don't get me wrong.

[sheepdog]

baniboy, on Feb 11 2009, 08:10 AM, said:

But no, natural selection is not always making the decision, people who have bad genetic diseases can survive it and breed, babys who are week don't die, because of a good hospital system. People who have cancer don't always die, I'm not saying they should r anything, don't get me wrong.

Actually, my remark was to truefusion who stated intelligence is metaphysical.. Intelligence is a result of how well a persons brain works, the physical and chemical balances in the brain that make it function. Which of course, depends in part to genetics. I don't get where it's metaphysical.

But you are absolutly right. It is not the smartes, strongest and the fastest who get to breed and perpetuate the species. OUr many advances in medical technoligy have given life to many that othewise nature would of culled before they reached the age of maturity and gained the ability to reproduce.

This is actually something that really bugs me. As a dog breeder, I am expected to test for every genetic disease under the sun and never even consider breeding a dog that has a defect, or I am acused of beign a horrible puppy miller. Man kind tinkers with the genetics of just about every living organisim on the face of the earth in efforts to "improve" it, from cows that produce more milk to corn that develops it's own pesticide and bacteria that will eat plastic to rid the planet of our waste. However, NOTHING is ever done to breed better humans.

[truefusion]

sheepdog, on Feb 10 2009, 07:43 PM, said:

Ok, I'm not sure where you are coming from on that. Intelligence, just like everything else, is genetic. Stupid parents have stupid children or at any rate, the odds for stupid children are much higher when their parents are stupid. ... It's all genetic.

sheepdog, on Feb 11 2009, 01:20 PM, said:

Actually, my remark was to truefusion who stated intelligence is metaphysical. Intelligence is a result of how well a persons brain works, the physical and chemical balances in the brain that make it function. Which of course, depends in part to genetics. I don't get where it's metaphysical.

What makes a person smart or intelligent? Is it (1) the ability to hold and repeat information (like a parrot), (2) number 1 and the ability to test well, (3) the ability to solve problems (well) without previous knowledge, (4) the previous three combined, (5) merely how well their brain functions, or (6) all of the above? You've chosen to define it as the fifth one on that list. That means they could fail every test given to them, be bad at solving problems and be completely ignorant of everything in existence and still be considered intelligent so long as they have a well functioning brain, according to your definition. That means even a mentally retarded person cannot be considered intelligent even if they are progressing towards a "normal" state of mind. You'll notice, however, you can't define "intelligence" without comparison, just like many things. If you can't compare the object with another object, you have no definition of the word "intelligent"—it means nothing; the object just is. "Intelligence" is how we define it—there is no absolute definition for it.

[Quatrux]

Well, if talking about human evolution like a stop, it's over.. I doubt we reached the level and stopped evolving, as I remember reading, some parts in our body are still changing and with time may be gone naturally, only it will take some time.. Body parts which are useless for us, for example it's believed that we used to have a tail or something like that, our bone structure shows that? We have something like that in our back which is similar to the start of the tail, what is that bone called? in our rump.. Anyway it's believed to extinct and look much different in the future, I mean naturally..

Furthermore, I don't know how that body part is called in English, maybe "sty" .. the red thing in our eye, near the nose is also believed to extinct, as we don't have any use of it too, there are people who are born without it even Today.

When I said naturally, I also meant that it's believed, humans like a race will evolve artificially, I mean we might alter ourself with future technology.. for example to make our lungs similar to fish and then we could be able to live underwater, it's really possible, it just depends on time, I also read that 21 century might be the century of genetic engineering and such things when we will start altering ourself which absolutes the idea of evolution naturally, where 20th century is called the century of going to space, rocketry.

[Baniboy]

Quatrux, on Feb 11 2009, 11:54 PM, said:

Well, if talking about human evolution like a stop, it's over.. I doubt we reached the level and stopped evolving, as I remember reading, some parts in our body are still changing and with time may be gone naturally, only it will take some time.. Body parts which are useless for us, for example it's believed that we used to have a tail or something like that, our bone structure shows that? We have something like that in our back which is similar to the start of the tail, what is that bone called? in our rump.. Anyway it's believed to extinct and look much different in the future, I mean naturally..

Furthermore, I don't know how that body part is called in English, maybe "sty" .. the red thing in our eye, near the nose is also believed to extinct, as we don't have any use of it too, there are people who are born without it even Today.

When I said naturally, I also meant that it's believed, humans like a race will evolve artificially, I mean we might alter ourself with future technology.. for example to make our lungs similar to fish and then we could be able to live underwater, it's really possible, it just depends on time, I also read that 21 century might be the century of genetic engineering and such things when we will start altering ourself which absolutes the idea of evolution naturally, where 20th century is called the century of going to space, rocketry.

I didn't actually mean stopping even the topic name says so, evolution will never stop, we can never become "perfect".
I ment more like not evolving to be smarter and stronger anymore.

And btw the bone is called the tailbone if i remember correctly, it is dissapearing by the time but we can never be sure, we don't have enough other objects to compare it to. It's literally a pain in the *bottom* if you do a lot of sit-ups.

As for the evolution being done artificially, I could really REALLY use a few extra hands