14 replies to this topic

[truefusion]

Digitalidad, on Feb 22 2009, 09:40 PM, said:

If you just go to see your doctor, now you have to make an appointment. Sometimes they'll give you a date for a month later or more, which is ridiculous because you go there because you feel bad at that moment! If you are sent to see an specialist you sometimes have to wait for 2 or 3 months -again, many have died waiting for attention.

The drugs they prescribe are nearly always the same: aspirins and antibiotics. The doctors are told to do so because it's cheaper. When you need a special drug, sometimes they don't have it because it's out of stock -for months- and poor people have to manage to get money to buy them at a regular drugstore. Most of the times they cost a lot!

Hmm. I think the waiting line can be reduced if there are more hospitals and if nutritionists start educating the masses. I know there are certain substances in foods today, at least here in the States, that can be banned from the market, like high fructose corn syrup and MSG, et cetera. But you know what i always found ironic? When i would go to the doctor, i would have to wait a long time, sometimes an hour or more, just to see the doctor, only to be seen for about 10 minutes or so and then leave with a prescription. Bleh, that's another thing about drugs, they imply that so long as you take the pill, you can continue doing what caused the problem in the first place. And commercials for certain drugs actually push that way of thinking, which is absurd. So educating the masses really plays a big role here.

Digitalidad, on Feb 22 2009, 09:40 PM, said:

Ambulances? You have to make an appointment too. Months before your visit to the hospital.

That's crazy.

rpgsearcherz, on Feb 23 2009, 12:29 AM, said:

So for health care I feel that if we had a nationalized system it should do everything in its power to minimize the corruption in the system.

Correct. I feel that experience can help very greatly here. I know some people are against a national health care system, and there are probably other better ways of going about it, but it's either change the system or stick with the one we have already. If the one we already have isn't providing as good as it should be, then it should be obvious that the system requires change. If we were to just improve the current system, how would it be done? I don't think any of the politicians that were running for president provided a long term, if at all any short term, solution. I know there are other things to be worrying about, but if they took a whole day or so per problem, i think better brain storms would come out of it.

One of the reasons i started this topic was to try and come up with ways to make as perfect of a system as possible. Unfortunately, asking the people can only go so far, but it is providing a lot of insight. Considerations also have to come from experience from the doctors themselves and others who work at the hospitals, as they should be able to provided insight on what should be covered, on what is questionable, and on what shouldn't be covered as well. But i don't think we have any doctors here at Trap17.

[rpgsearcherz]

Well if we did have a national healthcare system I feel it should only cover dire emergencies.

If you're sitting at home coughing a lot, it should not be covered.
If you just want to get a physical for school, it should not be covered.
If you feel you might be sick, but have no real symptoms other than "Maybe I am," it should not be covered.


Things that would be okay to cover are:

Surgeries
Transplants
Birthing(Now...This might be a hot spot for some. I feel that it should be covered because the child should not be punished for the parents' mistake.)
And other things that really REQUIRE healthcare.



Anything else you should be fine on your own.

And you can dispute the fact that some people may *need* to go because of something like a flu, but at the same time there would be many who would make up reasons to go, without really needing it. It just would not make any sense for us to be spending our tax dollars for those purposes.



So all in all, I do understand that there are some things that would warrant the health care system, but on the other hand it has to be limited. As the limits open up, so does the amount of corruption(and "stealing") of our tax dollars.

And yes, the type of care that you would get will still be largely based on how much money you have, but it is better than letting people scam everyone else. The fact of the matter is, our government is just like any other business. They have to make more money than they spend or they can not afford to stay open. In the case of the national health care system, their lack of funds would mean higher taxes, thereby hurting all of us taxpayers again.


The main thing to look at is that if it is set up to where a lot of people can take advantadge of it, the government is not paying for it, YOU are paying for it.

("YOU" is being used in a generalized form here. You being whoever is reading this and/or is thinking about the health care system)

[truefusion]

rpgsearcherz, on Feb 23 2009, 06:38 PM, said:

Birthing(Now...This might be a hot spot for some. I feel that it should be covered because the child should not be punished for the parents' mistake.)

Interesting point; noted.

rpgsearcherz, on Feb 23 2009, 06:38 PM, said:

Well if we did have a national healthcare system I feel it should only cover dire emergencies.

If you're sitting at home coughing a lot, it should not be covered.
If you just want to get a physical for school, it should not be covered.
If you feel you might be sick, but have no real symptoms other than "Maybe I am," it should not be covered.

And other things that really REQUIRE healthcare.

And you can dispute the fact that some people may *need* to go because of something like a flu, but at the same time there would be many who would make up reasons to go, without really needing it. It just would not make any sense for us to be spending our tax dollars for those purposes.

So all in all, I do understand that there are some things that would warrant the health care system, but on the other hand it has to be limited. As the limits open up, so does the amount of corruption(and "stealing") of our tax dollars.

Right. I was contemplating on whether or not we should give doctors a bonus for actually making better the sick. For people who just think they're sick might actually be allowed all because the doctor knows they will get a bonus out of it, therefore making the system a bit corrupt. Also, the doctor might actually write down more than what the patient actually has, therefore gaining more income because of it. I figured that banning substances within the food we eat which has caused this nation to be one of the unhealthiest countries on earth, like high fructose corn syrup, would help increase health. I was also considering banning unorganic farming, but that would, i believe, cause food prices to raise more than what it currently is, so we would have to first fix our economy before we can even consider such a thing. Also, that may cause companies to seek farming else where, therefore avoiding the laws we have in place. So we would have to probably work with other countries to prevent our companies from dodging the law. That is, if one of our companies own land in the other countries, that piece of land would be subject to our laws concerning agriculture.

rpgsearcherz, on Feb 23 2009, 06:38 PM, said:

And yes, the type of care that you would get will still be largely based on how much money you have, but it is better than letting people scam everyone else. The fact of the matter is, our government is just like any other business. They have to make more money than they spend or they can not afford to stay open. In the case of the national health care system, their lack of funds would mean higher taxes, thereby hurting all of us taxpayers again.

Heh. One of the proposals i was contemplating on was limiting the amount of income politicians are allowed to keep or tax them the most, perhaps 35% (or more) of their total earnings. We all know a lot of these people earn money outside of their original salaries, of which would more than certainly, i would say, not only bring us out of debt but also help cover so many other things. Failure to allow such a thing would show just how greedy they are. The unfortunate part being that in order to avoid getting taxed so much, they would seek to "humble" themselves, reducing their earnings to try and keep more of it if possible. This would also show their greed, but it would reduce the kind of income for the States. However, i wouldn't say that because of this "loophole" that this system shouldn't be implemented, for money will come in anyways, and no business i know of would actually seek to reduce their income, let alone customers. The people, of course, would get taxed less based on their total earnings. I was looking into the FairTax thing, and it appears to have similar ideas, but i haven't really done enough research on it to conclude anything about it.

[rpgsearcherz]

Paying politicians less would cause a huge issue.

Something that a lot of people do not consider is that they are risking their lives each and every day. I know that technically we are as well, just being alive, but they are in a spot where people may actually be after them.

Really, I feel that police officers should be paid much more as well.


Really though, back on to the topic of the health care...I just do not see how it could possibly work out and actually benefit everyone. It would be fine if it would benefit most(Let's put that at 85%?) but there would still be too much corruption in the system.

A fix a lot of people would probably think of is "Why don't we pay the doctors less?!" Well, consider this. They go to school for 8 years(sometimes more) for their schooling. During that time they are spending 50k+ a semester. Afterwards, they are on-call 24/7. They could have a schedule like the following:


4 AM - Wake up
5 AM - Go to work
3 PM - Get off work
3:30 PM - Called in for emergency
1 AM - get off work
3 AM - back to work



And continue that cycle... I mean it's not easy. I can completely understand why they are paid so much. How many others would honestly want to live their life like that day after day?


And this is where my biggest issue comes in. It's the fact that the costs of health care, taxes, etc. are just so high. For us to "fix" that issue would mean more taxes for us.

Let's assume they tax the rich people more than the poor people(Of which they do, but as far as I know, not a LOT). It would hurt the desire to become extremely rich. Those who have all the money are because they thought of good ideas that really enhanced peoples' lives(excluding drug dealers and pimps of course). So doing this would therefore end up hurting us still, as the competition would go down, and prices would go up.


It's just a huge snowball effect.

[Baniboy]

truefusion, on Feb 22 2009, 12:54 AM, said:

Heh, yes, quite sad. We have public libraries, police, firefighters, et cetera, but have to pay for the ambulance ride. I'm not sure if the rate is fixed or not, but if i remember correctly, one of the receipts i saw charged over $20 for the ride.


16, eh? I'ma assume 16 is the legal age for work. I know here in the States we have Financial Aid for education after high school, but not everyone is eligible. We also have ways of being sponsored, but these other ways can't be obtained by everyone. It's interesting to see that you guys get free lunch also. But is lunch limited to the campus or can you basically go anywhere to eat? I would assume the former, but the latter is also possible. And how about breakfast, which is always said that it is the best out of all meals? Is breakfast free too?


I heard with proper eating and exercise you can reduce the effects of depression, sometimes clearing it away entirely. I had known that eating certain fast foods (if not all) can get you depressed due to all the chemicals in it. That is, if you stop eating it after having it for quite a while, you start feeling the side effects, one of which is depression. This has been known for a while by many who study nutrition, but you can see it for yourself if you see the movie Super Size Me.


Yeah, that was one of the side effects of having a national health system that i observed: competition. But the competition talked about was from other hospitals trying to get as many patients as possible, and not only increase in patients, but also increase in healthy patients! I personally am getting a bit tired of the system here in the States, as doctors aren't getting paid, or paid more, for healthy patients—to get them to stop smoking, eat right, et cetera—but they're getting paid more to prescribe drugs to patients. And a refill hits the wallet hard—imagine for those who are on multiple pills. SSI helps reduce the damage, but people don't receive SSI because they have (good-paying) jobs, it's normally because they're jobless. I've been attempting to figure out ways to overcome the competition trouble without "Big Pharma" having much if anything to do with an increase in profits, but there are still some things to work out.


How do they pay it all back? Or do you mean they just pay taxes, not necessarily pay back what they used?


I heard there were exceptions, but i didn't think it would be for those things. The exceptions i would implement or would have assumed would be things that are desired or desirable. That is, you wouldn't be allowed to pay for something that "fixes" a "problem" that relates to self esteem or ego, like enlarging body parts, reducing wrinkles, et cetera; dental care i would allow, for what if you fall and break your teeth, et cetera? Dental problems is not only a hygiene problem but also a health problem. If i were to make a national health care system i would make it illegal for the national health system to cover for things that help the ego, et cetera. The only thing it would cover is actual health problems and injuries. This would, i believe, help prevent false spending and would allow earnings outside of the system. I'm also contemplating whether or not patients who are apathetic towards their health should still have their health coverage continued.

Well the money governments give to students is partly a loan and partly just giveaway. So you'll have to pay back the amount you used but not the actual support because... well because it's support, not a loan. Anyway you'll have to pay the loan back after you get a job, the support itself is small and it won't cover even all the books you'll have to buy.

No, we don't get breakfast, our school starts at either 8.10, 9.00 or 10.00. We eat breakfast at home/ or I just drink coffee . The lunch is provided by the school, we don't go to eat somewhere else. The food in school is ok, not great but edible (if that's the right word, I always forget...). There's the veggy option and salad and a meal that contains meat.