6 replies to this topic

[k_nitin_r]

Hi!

There's something off about the title of this sub-category. I mean, just try and spot the odd one out:

• Java
  
• Javascript
  
• Java Servlets
  
• JSP

Yes, that's right - it is Javascript. Javascript is by no means Java. It doesn't compile into Java bytecode, it isn't strictly typed, it's a whole different language! Why then is Javascript bunched together with Java, Java servlets and JSP? The only thing Javascript shares with Java is a part of the name.

In fact, if you look at the AJAX sub-category, Javascript is a part of AJAX (the 'J' in AJAX stands for Javascript). You could have the AJAX sub-category named as "Javascript and AJAX" and have this sub-category named as "Java, Java Servlets, & JSP".

If you've got any thoughts about this, feel free to post to this thread.

Regards

[inverse_bloom]

You've got a good point there, even JavaScript with HTML, XML would be an improvement. To classify JavaScript with Java is odd.

Edited by inverse_bloom, 29 May 2009 - 11:29 AM.

[truefusion]

k_nitin_r, on May 29 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Why then is Javascript bunched together with Java, Java servlets and JSP? The only thing Javascript shares with Java is a part of the name.

You have just answered your own question. They are not grouped together because they are of the same family; they are grouped together because they all start with the letters "Java."

k_nitin_r, on May 29 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

In fact, if you look at the AJAX sub-category, Javascript is a part of AJAX (the 'J' in AJAX stands for Javascript). You could have the AJAX sub-category named as "Javascript and AJAX" and have this sub-category named as "Java, Java Servlets, & JSP".

If you've got any thoughts about this, feel free to post to this thread.

Actually, AJAX is part of JavaScript, not the other way around. Regardless, a better approach would be to make a forum called "Client-side Languages" and use that for (X)(HT)ML, CSS, JavaScript and what-have-you, not to fully give JavaScript its own forum. But that would require some forum maintenance, that is, looking through the Java* forum for all JavaScript related topics and moving them to the new forum: something i see as a bit unnecessary due to the fact that JavaScript is part of the Java* forum because it starts with "Java."

[k_nitin_r]

@truefusion

Hi!

I know I haven't convinced you yet, so I'll make another attempt in this post.

truefusion, on May 30 2009, 03:50 AM, said:

You have just answered your own question. They are not grouped together because they are of the same family; they are grouped together because they all start with the letters "Java."

What I tried to mention in my original post is that we shouldn't be grouping the languages simply due to the name. Let me form an analogy here... C++ and C# aren't usually grouped together. The C++ libraries are very different from the .NET base class libraries. C++ code is compiled into machine code while C# code is compiled into Microsoft Intermediate Language (MSIL).

The following are the differences I can state between Java and java script:

1. Syntax
We cannot use the Java syntax when writing Javascript. The similarity between Java and Javascript is the same as the similarity between C++ and PHP - they both end statements with semicolons and have squiggly brackets to indicate blocks. Among others, the easiest to notice is the use of the "function" keyword when declaring a Javascript function instead of the return type in Java. We don't have to declare variables in Javascript as we do in Java.

2. Compilation model
Java is a (partly) compiled language. The Java compiler turns the Java source code into byte code. Javascript, on the other hand, is interpreted.

3. Strict-typing vs Weak-typing
We don't declare the datatype of the variables in Javascript. The same variable can hold a reference to a number, a string containing a number, or an object.

In Java, we define the data type of variables upon declaration.

truefusion, on May 30 2009, 03:50 AM, said:

Actually, AJAX is part of JavaScript, not the other way around. Regardless, a better approach would be to make a forum called "Client-side Languages" and use that for (X)(HT)ML, CSS, JavaScript and what-have-you, not to fully give JavaScript its own forum. But that would require some forum maintenance, that is, looking through the Java* forum for all JavaScript related topics and moving them to the new forum: something i see as a bit unnecessary due to the fact that JavaScript is part of the Java* forum because it starts with "Java."

I agree with you when you say AJAX is a part of Javascript. AJAX stands for "Asynchronous Javascript and XML". AJAX only deals with the asynchronous calls to the server for additional functionality - simply performing client-side validation or improving the aesthetics of the web page with Javascript-effects isn't AJAX but it is Javscript. Since we're anyway covering a part of Javascript, we might as well discuss Javascript in its entirety.

I agree with you on the "Client-side languages" concept, though I would suggest keeping (X)HTML and CSS separate from Javascript as they are primarily related to the display/formatting of the content, while Javascript adds additional 'programmable' functionality.

I agree with you on the forum maintenance issue. It is a pain. But an alternative is to archive the current "Java*" section (stop new posts/replies) and create separate sections for Javascript and for Java-based technologies. If necessary, with some volunteering, we could move the messages from the archives to the new sections.

Regards

[truefusion]

k_nitin_r, on May 30 2009, 01:25 AM, said:

I know I haven't convinced you yet, so I'll make another attempt in this post.

If you're trying to convince me, then that's work in vain. Not because i can't be convinced, but that even if i wanted to split "Java Script" from the forum's name, i'm not an administrator. Moderators do not have the ability to modify the properties of forums; we are limited to topics and posts. But this topic has been brought up in the past. Technically, all the reasons you have provided are irrelevant due to the Java* forum's naming convention. That is, as mentioned before, they are grouped together merely because of how the beginning of the words are spelled, not because they are of the same family. And even if such naming conventions may spark confusion, anyone who knows about Java and JavaScript can tell the difference between the two anyway. And chances are you won't even need the the name of the forum to start confusion: you can rely on just the name of the languages themselves for that.

[k_nitin_r]

truefusion, on May 30 2009, 08:22 PM, said:

And even if such naming conventions may spark confusion, anyone who knows about Java and JavaScript can tell the difference between the two anyway. And chances are you won't even need the the name of the forum to start confusion: you can rely on just the name of the languages themselves for that.

We can't really blame Brendan Eich for the name 'JavaScript' because he developed it for the Netscape corporation. It was named Mocha at the time. Later it was named LiveScript. Now the marketing guys back then thought along the lines that domain squatters think today so they named it after the popular Java programming language. Thus we have JavaScript.

We have a lot of terms that were 'invented' or 'hi-jacked' (for lack of a better term) by marketing staff who had a vaguely limited knowledge of the subject.

Anyway, I guess this is another thread we can consider closed :-(

[SoundStorm]

It would be nice if there was a main category Java and inside for each area of interest like : JavaSE, JavaEE, JavaME, Servlets, JSP, Ajax, Javascript, Java frameworks, etc would be subcategories.