16 replies to this topic

[rayzoredge]

freshpub, on Aug 20 2009, 11:39 AM, said:

You might also be charged with murder, rayzoredge, if you actually managed it somehow!

I'm sure that you'd be charged with much more than manslaughter if you actually committed the act... it's a whole different screwball game then. But we're just talking about the mere utterance of the thought here... kind of like how you want to kill your little brother/sister sometimes.

[TheDisturbedOne]

rayzoredge, on Aug 20 2009, 04:07 PM, said:

It's like how when Obama came down to the Portsmouth High School in little 'ol New Hampshire and although someone was actually found sneaking into the school prior to the town hall meeting with a pocket knife and a loaded, unregistered gun in his car, there was more hullabaloo with a guy who had permission to be on the grounds with a gun in a leg holster. Yes, the guy had every right to have a weapon, thanks to the second Amendment to the Constitution, but common sense dictates that you probably shouldn't have a weapon near the President of the United States as I'm sure it would be suspicious. (The guy had it on him to prove a point, which did happen and which also drew a large amount of attention thanks to the media... all of which he wanted in the first place.)

That's actually a great idea. People have the right to bear arms and that place should be no exception. Of course he has to be very careful in what he says or does there, because murder isn't protected by the bill of rights.

[dangerdan]

Yeah, I'd say it's illegal regardless of your intention to actually carry out the act. I view this as being similar to the European law regarding inciting racial hatred. You need only call for a "jihad" or "holocaust" (seriously, no offence to anyone through the use of these terms) to be said to be inciting racial hatred which is a crime in European. Saying you want to kill the President is probably as close as you can get to high treason in the USA so I'd say it's a definite no.

On the other hand, common sense and practicality reign supreme and if it is apparent you are making these comments as a joke it will probably be ignored. If you're a known terrorist and you make similar claims, chances are you'll be arrested. I agree with most people here that the absolute key point is intent.

[sheepdog]

I would say, with our current persident, it's probably illegal. Since he has no respect for our constitution or personal freedoms. And given the fact that the secret service men were sent out to hassal a 13 year old kid that mentioned on a blog that since they had killed Ben Ladin we should probably expect retaliation, I suspect saying you were going to kill the Prez would probably land you in jail reguardless of your intention.

[anwiii]

oh give it a rest already will you? also, i want your source for the information you are claiming is true.

anyway, the answer to this question is quite simple. people want to think free speech protects people on making threats on peoples lives? think again. most of the people who tried to answer this question don't even live here. i will tell you the LEAST that can happen, they can pick you up, arrest you, and interegate you for days if you are heard saying that you want to kill the president. after that, you are marked in their little books for life as a possible terrorist. so then the more you are heard saying it, the more of a threat they think you will be.

people have been sued and won in court for people making threats that they never backed up. it's called assault. if you have put fear in someone that thinks you are going to harm them in any way and you have the means to do so, that IS illegal and you can go to jail. sure, there is a difference between saying "i want to kill the president" and "i am going to kill the president" if if the latter is just a figure of speech.

if i was the president and someone said they wanted to kill me, i would want them investigated immediately. if we can have 12 year old kids go to school with a gun and start killing innocent people, what is gonna stop them from being in a crowd with a gun where nobody suspects a think and shooting the president?

people have to be responsible for their words or be held responsible. it's really that simple. also, from what i know about the law, authorities can pretty much do whatever they want whether it's legal or not so even if they abuse their power, what is really going to be done about it? only a slect few cases even see the day in court when you want to protest about the government. first of all higher ranking officials are deemed more credible than average every day citizens(which is wrong), secondly, it's very easy to lie in a report.

i am not surprised you think a 12 year old should be allowed to say whatever they want against the president sheepdog. you have made it clear for a while now that if the president died tomorrow, you wouldn't lose any sleep.

in the end, it all boils down to this. while making a direct threat against the presidents life is NOT ok, neither is an indirect threat. this should not be acceptable behavior towards any other human being in this world. there are threats on the presidents life made every day that is picked up on. it's been the same for every president. it's no secret that when said often enough, it becomes a reality that people actually do want to kill the president and and our laws in this nation should protect people from such threats....ESPECIALLY when we are talking about the most powerfull person in the world where the threats can become reality a lot quicker than someone threatening some nobody off the street.

i gaurantee you one thing sheepdog, if you were threatened as much as the president, you would lock yourself in your house, draw your shades, and possibly even paint your windows black. you would be living in fear and terror. the president has to live like that every day of his life. why do you think we spend so much money to protect the president with secret service? because there will ALWAYS be an immediate or potential threat on his life.

you condoning such actions and words only supports the fact that not only do you dislike the president, you wouldn't mind seeing him dead. why don't you go out and hold up some picket signs in front of the white house that say "we want to kill the president" or start chanting the words, "hey hey, the president should di today" and see how far you get. to condone such actions in public is to play a part in those actions

what you are saying to every 12 year old kid is that it is ok to say those things? they shouldn't hold repercussions? if this is true, it's a good thing you don't have kids because i am sure every decent parent doesn't want their kids to act out in that way and there is a reason for that. it's up for you now to figure out why....

you said our currenct president hs no respect for our constitution or our personal freedoms? where are you getting this nonsense? are you 12 years old yourself? what part of the constitution is he disrespecting and what part of our personal freedoms is he denying? please do tell. and make your rebuttal unique to our current president since those were your exact words

our system of government may not be perfect and i will be the FIRST to stand up and speak about the truth, but when all i hear from an adult is blanket statements without any proof or logical opinion behind them, then have to say that i am sure glad YOUR not president because you don't have a clue what is going on.

you are always wanting obama out of office. you are always speaking publically that he's a bad president. what's gonna happen when we elect our next president and it's not obama and our next one is even worse? what are you going to say besides being a parrot? you probably never liked ANY president that was elected and it doesn't matter WHO you try to kick out of office even if our next president is worse than the previous one.

[angelacat]

rob86, on 19 August 2009 - 08:39 PM, said:

I think there's a legal difference between saying "I want" and "I plan to/want to/am going to".

Threatening to kill the president is definitely illegal even if you claim you were joking, but since it'd be a big hassle to punish everyone for saying it, they must use some discretion. Even though it constitutes a death threat against the head of state, I think authorities are pretty lenient with the comment since it's so often used in general when a person is angry "I'm going to kill that guy who stole my woman!" etc.

Absolutely agree with you! Everyone has freedom of speech but if actually actions violate law/rules will get corresponding publishments. If your speech or actions threaten the security of society, you are likely to be arrested for that sake.

Edited by angelacat, 04 July 2011 - 06:08 AM.

[sheepdog]

Quote

oh give it a rest already will you?

Oh come on Anwiii, you know you don't mean that! What would you do for intertainment if I gave it a rest? Tell me truthfully, is there anybody on this forum you enjoy argueing with more than me???

While I might not have quite the number of death threats as Obummer, as someone who is involved with animal agriculture, the threat of terrorism by animal rights activists is a real and constant danger in my profession. Yes, I have recieved death threats. My windows are not painted black and I do not hide.

The boy I mentioned in my previous post was 13, and he did not make a threat against the president, I was just using it as an example as to what our current administration is up to. He made a simple statement on a web site, the same thing I'm sure went through the minds and mouths of many other people when Ben Ladin was killed, he feared that there would be retaliation strikes against the USA.

As to your point about not believing Obummer has no respect for our constitution, off the top of my head, the first one I can think of is how HE specifically banned anyone in the military to speak at any faith based meetings. Just because someone is in the military, that person does not or should not loose their rights to free speach, and the right to attend any religous gathering or even an event that is sponcered by a religious organization. I am sure there are numerous other examples I could dig up if I had the time. His cabinette apointments should give anyone cause for concern, when he puts people in power that had specific agenda's against the very organizations he put them in charge of.