7 replies to this topic

[Soviet Rathe]

I have a 6 year old Jack Russel/Tarrier mix named Hamlet, All he does all day is sleep and follow me around.
He is scared of storms and if it is raining hard or thundering he will not use the bathroom, today I walk around in the rain for a half hour and he still does not use the bathroom -.- plus he acts retarded and doesn't know that we will go in if he just goes!

Along with this, he has other problems. I can walk him out without a leash and he doesn't run off. but he also doesn't listen, outside or inside. I have to yell at him 4 times before he even acts like he hears me and even then he still doesn't listen. and even though I have had him for over 3 years (got him from a shelter) if I pick up an object or something he thinks I'm going to hit him x_x
and the reason he is so lazy and weak is because he spent most of his life in a cage.

I've really been meaning to wright a letter to Caesar Mullan, but is there something else I can do?

Edited by Soviet Rathe, 21 January 2010 - 07:15 PM.

[rob86]

Teaching or training a dog isn't overly hard, the challenge is you have to be very dedicated and patient. People commonly use what they call desensitization to help animals, for example, if your dog is scared of thunder, you might have to get an audio track online of some thunder sound effects, and play them at very, very low volumes, while slowly increasing the volume every day. You have to be really patient, REALLY patient, because if you advance too fast, you could scare him and have to revert back to the beginning. I'm not sure how this works with thunder, but since i don't believe in rain dances, I think it's the best option you've got. When you try to desensitize an animal to something, you don't want to comfort them too much like "Awww, come on pup, you'll be okay, it's just rain and thunder!" you want to seem as.. normal as possible. You don't want to keep 'telling' them that something weird is going on. A lot of people believe dogs can sense what you're feeling, your calmness for example, but they might misinterpret it. Like if your dog is barking at another dog, you don't want to keep telling him to shut up -- he might think you're barking with him. I think you should pretend not to notice the barking, just continue your walk or play session to distract him, but quietly.

Some dogs just don't like rain though, my dog won't use the bathroom in the rain eihter, he's not overly scared of it, he just doesn't like it. He'll go out and walk in the rain, but he doesn't like to go out and just poo in a puddle. Sometimes dogs have funny bathroom habits too. Some dogs just don't like to crap everywhere. My dog for example always tries to find a spot that's kind of out of the way. He never goes in the middle of a road or something, he goes off in a ditch. He also doesn't like peeing in the middle of nowhere, he usually likes some kind of an object to pee on like a tree or rock. I never trained him to have such nice manners and avoid using the bathroom in walking areas, he just did it himself. So maybe try walking him around some bushes or something.

As for him not returning when you call -- well... that's about every dog on the planet. I used to be really into training my dog, and studied animal psychology and everything, and he still doesn't come when I call reliably -- simply because I was too lazy and impatient. If you're serious about training him a 'recall' then you pick a word that he doesn't know. So not "come here!" but something like, 'return!' or something, or even a word in another language. Then, you have to train him to obey the word while always having him on a long leash, and force him to return by pulling on the leash EVERY time and if he does return ..always reward him. When he gets 'good', NEVER let him get away with not returning when you call, EVER -- which means, don't tell him to return to you every 5 minutes or you'll have a lot of enforcing to do. You don't want them to know that not returning is even a possibility. For something as important as a reliable recall, I think you really have to keep training them their entire life. People train dogs in different places around different distractions (park, lawn, someones house, butcher shop.. ) and very rarely expect perfection, just a high percentage of successes. Your dog may come when called in the house, or in yoru lawn, but anywhere else.. he won't. You have to re train them in almost every situation! A lot of work, I know! I forget what they say is an 'optimum' success rate, but I do know they don't expect 100%. -- except for coming when called. I mean you see those dogs on tv performing to perfection, but that's not the real world, just what they're trained to be used to.

You can desensitize him to the objects the same way as above, just slowly introduce objects to him. Just have treats around or make the object be a play toy, he'll eventually get used to it.. just take it slow and don't push him so far. If he's terrified and shaking in a corner, don't run at him with the object and say 'it's nothing, calm down!' just try again slower later, maybe a smaller object or something. you didn't really specify what kind of an object.

Look into what they call 'clicker' training which is a form of positive reinforcement animal training. It's not just some hippy wimps method of training -- it's really effective. I taught my dog some things with this method and he caught on almost instantly with this method. You _can_ use it for training reliable things -- look at all the athletic competition dogs that are 'positively' trained -- it was also used to train animals during the war, but it really excels for fun tricks. Dogs really, really enjoy clicker training. They seem to understand it more clearly than just words and when they understand, the success makes them feel good. Dogs don't like to be confused and get frustrated like people.

So really, training a dog isn't some impossible task for only wolf-men like Cesar.. but it takes time and patience. This is mostly why dedicated trainers and behaviorists seem so effective, they're getting paid to be dedicated and patient. It's hard to be patient with your own dog , I know!

[Soviet Rathe]

Very helpful post rob86
I've always thought he should automatically obey me in return for us rescuing him from the shelter, (even thought I knew it wasn't that simple) the thing I lack is time and patients Since he Does Not play, I don't really devote much time to him. he's just there, watching me, all day. lol I don't know what I'd do without him though

Here is the newspaper clipping

rob86, on Jan 21 2010, 03:04 PM, said:

Teaching or training a dog isn't overly hard, the challenge is you have to be very dedicated and patient. People commonly use what they call desensitization to help animals, for example, if your dog is scared of thunder, you might have to get an audio track online of some thunder sound effects, and play them at very, very low volumes, while slowly increasing the volume every day. You have to be really patient, REALLY patient, because if you advance too fast, you could scare him and have to revert back to the beginning. I'm not sure how this works with thunder, but since i don't believe in rain dances, I think it's the best option you've got. When you try to desensitize an animal to something, you don't want to comfort them too much like "Awww, come on pup, you'll be okay, it's just rain and thunder!" you want to seem as.. normal as possible. You don't want to keep 'telling' them that something weird is going on. A lot of people believe dogs can sense what you're feeling, your calmness for example, but they might misinterpret it. Like if your dog is barking at another dog, you don't want to keep telling him to shut up -- he might think you're barking with him. I think you should pretend not to notice the barking, just continue your walk or play session to distract him, but quietly.

Some dogs just don't like rain though, my dog won't use the bathroom in the rain eihter, he's not overly scared of it, he just doesn't like it. He'll go out and walk in the rain, but he doesn't like to go out and just poo in a puddle. Sometimes dogs have funny bathroom habits too. Some dogs just don't like to crap everywhere. My dog for example always tries to find a spot that's kind of out of the way. He never goes in the middle of a road or something, he goes off in a ditch. He also doesn't like peeing in the middle of nowhere, he usually likes some kind of an object to pee on like a tree or rock. I never trained him to have such nice manners and avoid using the bathroom in walking areas, he just did it himself. So maybe try walking him around some bushes or something.

As for him not returning when you call -- well... that's about every dog on the planet. I used to be really into training my dog, and studied animal psychology and everything, and he still doesn't come when I call reliably -- simply because I was too lazy and impatient. If you're serious about training him a 'recall' then you pick a word that he doesn't know. So not "come here!" but something like, 'return!' or something, or even a word in another language. Then, you have to train him to obey the word while always having him on a long leash, and force him to return by pulling on the leash EVERY time and if he does return ..always reward him. When he gets 'good', NEVER let him get away with not returning when you call, EVER -- which means, don't tell him to return to you every 5 minutes or you'll have a lot of enforcing to do. You don't want them to know that not returning is even a possibility. For something as important as a reliable recall, I think you really have to keep training them their entire life. People train dogs in different places around different distractions (park, lawn, someones house, butcher shop.. ) and very rarely expect perfection, just a high percentage of successes. Your dog may come when called in the house, or in yoru lawn, but anywhere else.. he won't. You have to re train them in almost every situation! A lot of work, I know! I forget what they say is an 'optimum' success rate, but I do know they don't expect 100%. -- except for coming when called. I mean you see those dogs on tv performing to perfection, but that's not the real world, just what they're trained to be used to.

You can desensitize him to the objects the same way as above, just slowly introduce objects to him. Just have treats around or make the object be a play toy, he'll eventually get used to it.. just take it slow and don't push him so far. If he's terrified and shaking in a corner, don't run at him with the object and say 'it's nothing, calm down!' just try again slower later, maybe a smaller object or something. you didn't really specify what kind of an object.

Look into what they call 'clicker' training which is a form of positive reinforcement animal training. It's not just some hippy wimps method of training -- it's really effective. I taught my dog some things with this method and he caught on almost instantly with this method. You _can_ use it for training reliable things -- look at all the athletic competition dogs that are 'positively' trained -- it was also used to train animals during the war, but it really excels for fun tricks. Dogs really, really enjoy clicker training. They seem to understand it more clearly than just words and when they understand, the success makes them feel good. Dogs don't like to be confused and get frustrated like people.

So really, training a dog isn't some impossible task for only wolf-men like Cesar.. but it takes time and patience. This is mostly why dedicated trainers and behaviorists seem so effective, they're getting paid to be dedicated and patient. It's hard to be patient with your own dog , I know!

[Zagubadu·]

I was actually just watching that show. I don't think you should rely on Caeser to help you with your dog problems. Obviously he does not help everyone with their dog problems that'd be impossible. Maybe seek other professional help. You are the pack leader.

[anwiii]

first of all, i applaud ya for getting your dog at a shelter. we need to get more people interesting in loving these creatures that people stopped loving.

so you have a little jr....which i consider on of those ankle biting rat dogs. don't give up on him and he wont give up on you. i think before any training, maybe he just needs lots of love and not being jerked around on a leash. they like to sit in your lap or by your feet when watching t.v. and usually likes to sleep in the same bed. the key is LOTS and LOTS of love. you can never give enough.

if the dog wont come to you or understand any commands, then he shouldn't be off a leash. PERIOD! the only time one should ever take a dog off leash is when the dog and master have that connection where you BOTH have the ability to listen to eachother and respect eachother.

so put him on a leash when you go outside. if he doesn't go to the bathroom outside, where does he go, inside? one solution to taking your dog out to potty is to buy a pee pad. this is probably the best solution for you right now without you becoming frustrated and without your dog feeling the negative energy from you. like rob said....aside from lots of love, you need LOTS and LOTS of patience because this dog is already timid

when i got my dog as an 8 week old pup, i started training him right off the bat. this dog HATED the leash. once i would get it on, the dog wouldn't budge...seriously. no matter how hard i tugged on the leash, it would fight it. now....whenever i get a leash(once in a blue moon) the dog comes running to me and sits waiting to be attatched to the leash. my point is, all good things come eventually.....even if it takes years.

if you do decide to put your dog on a leash, it should just be when he has to go to the bathroom. you want to train your dog the basic commands ("sit, stay, come, heal, lie"). i always liked to teach SIT and STAY first....then when he gets good, COME and SIT. when you teach the dog to come, you want the dog not only to come to you....but come and sit right in front of you. the harder ones to teach is "heal" or "lie"(lie down). when you teach your dog on the leash for AN HOUR A DAY in 1/2 hour incriments, you want to reinforce any good behavior with a treat. make sure every command ends with good behavior and a treat, even if you have to force the dog a little to do what you ask. don't just not give him a treat just because he wasn't "perfect". after a couple months of constant training on the leash, the dog will usually be ready for off leash and hand commands. the same as the leash commands....but now the dog is offleash. it's also good to teach the dog the basic hand commands for each voice command.

but seriously dude, invest in a pee pad. you can't expect to wait an hour for your dog to go to the bathroom. you already know he's timid so not only is he going to be timid outside, but around strangers too. you need to create a bond. start by putting him on a leash indoors first or somewhere where you feel he is the most secure and feels the safest.

there are some good resources online for training your dog. aside from that, don't forget to love him to death. although he's middle aged, he is new to YOU and you should still treat him like a new born. gentle, caring, loving, and patient. don't do the things that makes your dog cower for no apparent reason...and don't play thunder music either. don't do the things he is afraid of. that's not a way to break habits for the most part.

your dog has feelings. heck, even i get scared of the thunder once in a while when it a really bad thunderstorm. it startles even me sometimes. i used to live in northridge california where earthquakes were abundant. i've been through 3 bad ones in my life and i am still afraid of them because i never know what to expect. helping me through my own fear would be to constantly shake me....no matter how slight. it would just be a reminder of what my fear is.

my point is, you get rid of the timidness and fear by lots of love and attention. you form a bond which creates more security for the dog so when there is something he was afraid of in the past, he isn't as much because you are now his security after you form your bond and connection.

trying to teach a dog offleash is not good. the dog wont know what the heck you mean. you don't have a leash to guide and reinforce commands by little tugs. teaching a dog to obey off leash before on leash is like teaching a one year old to walk on it's own. both situations will fail.

don't give up on your dog. you may be the master, but you have to give him the same dedication you expect from him. he deserves that much from someone, doesn't he?

Soviet Rathe, on Jan 21 2010, 01:14 PM, said:

I have a 6 year old Jack Russel/Tarrier mix named Hamlet, All he does all day is sleep and follow me around.
He is scared of storms and if it is raining hard or thundering he will not use the bathroom, today I walk around in the rain for a half hour and he still does not use the bathroom -.- plus he acts retarded and doesn't know that we will go in if he just goes!

Along with this, he has other problems. I can walk him out without a leash and he doesn't run off. but he also doesn't listen, outside or inside. I have to yell at him 4 times before he even acts like he hears me and even then he still doesn't listen. and even though I have had him for over 3 years (got him from a shelter) if I pick up an object or something he thinks I'm going to hit him x_x
and the reason he is so lazy and weak is because he spent most of his life in a cage.

I've really been meaning to wright a letter to Caesar Mullan, but is there something else I can do?

[deadmad7]

Soviet Rathe, on Jan 21 2010, 07:14 PM, said:

I have a 6 year old Jack Russel/Tarrier mix named Hamlet, All he does all day is sleep and follow me around.
He is scared of storms and if it is raining hard or thundering he will not use the bathroom, today I walk around in the rain for a half hour and he still does not use the bathroom -.- plus he acts retarded and doesn't know that we will go in if he just goes!

Along with this, he has other problems. I can walk him out without a leash and he doesn't run off. but he also doesn't listen, outside or inside. I have to yell at him 4 times before he even acts like he hears me and even then he still doesn't listen. and even though I have had him for over 3 years (got him from a shelter) if I pick up an object or something he thinks I'm going to hit him x_x
and the reason he is so lazy and weak is because he spent most of his life in a cage.

I've really been meaning to wright a letter to Caesar Mullan, but is there something else I can do?

It could also be the air pressure that is upseting him. When there is a storm coming the air pressure changes, and that could be affecting him. There are calming medications that you can get at a pet store, and you can also try using dryer sheets! Sometimes it isn’t the thunder that gets them fearful, it is the static in the air, and rubbing their fur with dryer sheets takes care of the static. It works sometimes on my dog. There are also music tapes/Cd’s that can sooth your dog. Or you can just let her hide and wait it out. I have tried them all on my little Tzu, sometimes one will work, sometimes another will work.. I can tell you this, from the advice of a professional trainer, do not give her more attention when she is shaking and panting. That just confirms to her that it is acceptable behavior, and she will keep doing it to get your attention.

If I know there is a bag storm coming I take my dog for a extra long walk just to wear him out! Then we play and give treats during the worst of the storm. Dont give the treats/rewards when the dog is shaking and scared, but when he’s </a>playing and having a good time.

My dog is a huge ham for company. My neighbor comes over when the lights go out sometimes and it’s a good distraction for my dog. He wants her undivided attention and soon forgets about the storm outside. So I guess my advice would be just to distract your dog how ever you can.

And definitely not Cesar, remember you are the pack leader!

Edited by deadmad7, 22 January 2010 - 03:50 PM.

[anwiii]

sorry, that is some of the worst advice i ever heard in regards to a dog. don't give the dog attention? just let it sit or stand or walk shaking and panting? Boooooooo! bad advice! bad bad bad. i don't think overly shaking or panting is a choice a dog makes on it's own anyway. i say this in assumtion that there is an outside reason for the shaking and panting. but if the dog is shaking and panting for no reason. could be sick and need vet attention.

no normal human being who loves his dog will sit and watch their loved one shake and pant without giving it attention. what kind of professional are you??? haha sheeeeeesh!

you don't just train a dog to obey. you train to understand commands and at the same time, we have to also train ourselves to understand what it means when the dog does something we like or don't like. or what it means if a dog is just laying by your feet....or what it means if a dog follows you around. the training doesn't just stop with the dog. love and attention are KEY elements to training.

as far as soviets dog, one has to understand that different dogs have different nature. the dog i have now, bruin, HATES fireworks. when i light them off, he will hide near me somewhere or run if he gets too scared. the dog i used to have, booker, used to chase bottle rockets and try to eat them before they fly away. i personally trained my dog from a pup, yet i see the fear in him under certain circumstances. for me, my choice isn't to scare him more just in hopes he gets used to what i like to do. but if he is out where i am, and i notice he is afraid, i will give attention....just like when he was stubborn and hated being on a leash. after a little forcing once in a while by putting him on one, i would pet him and reassure him. now he jumps to attention when i just have a leash in my hand like he knows it's time to go outside. his favorite place.

so in my opinion, in most circumstances when a dog is timid and afraid and not listening, you really do have to give them attention and reassure them that you are close and they are safe. not doing this could have adverse affects. my dog now will never get used to the fireworks which have somewhat the same sound as thunder sometimes. my point is, train a dog, yes.....but don't try to change the nature of your dog because usually it will be a neverending battle and all you accomplished was put more fear in to a dog that was necessary.

now in fact, the dog will always see us as giving positive attention or negative attention....whether on leash, off leash, sitting at your feet, or petting it's head. the dog will ALWAYS see us giving positive or negative attention. so the key is to always give the positive attention. even if we feel we aren't giving the dog attention at all either way, the dog will not see it like that. this is why it is so important to be intune with your dog to know what kind of attention you are giving.

when you get a dog from a shelter, you have to pay special close attention as well. it's not the same as caring for a pup from birth or at 8 weeks old. it would be nice to know how the dog lived. was it indoor? outdoor? was it always tied up? was it abused? is it even used to going to the bathroom outside when a lot of small indoor dogs do in fact use pee pads. most of the time, we don't know what was instilled in the animal.....so it's our job when we take it away, to find out by paying close attention and to try to feel what the dog is feeling and to try to think how the dog is thinking. that's why the training doesn't stop at just the dog. we need to train ourselves too to be able to give all the attention and love the dog deserves

deadmad7, on Jan 22 2010, 09:48 AM, said:

from the advice of a professional trainer, do not give her more attention when she is shaking and panting. That just confirms to her that it is acceptable behavior, and she will keep doing it to get your attention.

[Zagubadu·]

anwiii, on Jan 22 2010, 04:28 PM, said:

sorry, that is some of the worst advice i ever heard in regards to a dog. don't give the dog attention? just let it sit or stand or walk shaking and panting? Boooooooo! bad advice! bad bad bad. i don't think overly shaking or panting is a choice a dog makes on it's own anyway. i say this in assumtion that there is an outside reason for the shaking and panting. but if the dog is shaking and panting for no reason. could be sick and need vet attention.

no normal human being who loves his dog will sit and watch their loved one shake and pant without giving it attention. what kind of professional are you??? haha sheeeeeesh!

you don't just train a dog to obey. you train to understand commands and at the same time, we have to also train ourselves to understand what it means when the dog does something we like or don't like. or what it means if a dog is just laying by your feet....or what it means if a dog follows you around. the training doesn't just stop with the dog. love and attention are KEY elements to training.

as far as soviets dog, one has to understand that different dogs have different nature. the dog i have now, bruin, HATES fireworks. when i light them off, he will hide near me somewhere or run if he gets too scared. the dog i used to have, booker, used to chase bottle rockets and try to eat them before they fly away. i personally trained my dog from a pup, yet i see the fear in him under certain circumstances. for me, my choice isn't to scare him more just in hopes he gets used to what i like to do. but if he is out where i am, and i notice he is afraid, i will give attention....just like when he was stubborn and hated being on a leash. after a little forcing once in a while by putting him on one, i would pet him and reassure him. now he jumps to attention when i just have a leash in my hand like he knows it's time to go outside. his favorite place.

so in my opinion, in most circumstances when a dog is timid and afraid and not listening, you really do have to give them attention and reassure them that you are close and they are safe. not doing this could have adverse affects. my dog now will never get used to the fireworks which have somewhat the same sound as thunder sometimes. my point is, train a dog, yes.....but don't try to change the nature of your dog because usually it will be a neverending battle and all you accomplished was put more fear in to a dog that was necessary.

now in fact, the dog will always see us as giving positive attention or negative attention....whether on leash, off leash, sitting at your feet, or petting it's head. the dog will ALWAYS see us giving positive or negative attention. so the key is to always give the positive attention. even if we feel we aren't giving the dog attention at all either way, the dog will not see it like that. this is why it is so important to be intune with your dog to know what kind of attention you are giving.

when you get a dog from a shelter, you have to pay special close attention as well. it's not the same as caring for a pup from birth or at 8 weeks old. it would be nice to know how the dog lived. was it indoor? outdoor? was it always tied up? was it abused? is it even used to going to the bathroom outside when a lot of small indoor dogs do in fact use pee pads. most of the time, we don't know what was instilled in the animal.....so it's our job when we take it away, to find out by paying close attention and to try to feel what the dog is feeling and to try to think how the dog is thinking. that's why the training doesn't stop at just the dog. we need to train ourselves too to be able to give all the attention and love the dog deserves

Agreed all though it seemed to make sense at first I don't think completely ignoring it when its acting up will help it. Especially since its a rescue, and has already been through enough neglect and bad treatment as it is. Where do you live? Are there lots of bad storms or something? If not and its normal like up here in Maine I really would not worry about it.