27 replies to this topic

[Bikerman]

anwiii, on 15 September 2010 - 09:23 AM, said:

bikerman- being able to touch something means humans have mathmatical abilites from birth? get real.....

It is known that babies have a 'grab' instinct from very early - from the point of birth, if not before - and they will seek to grab and hold a finger or other part of a parent in the very early stages after birth. It is suggested that this is an evolutionary adaptation from our tree-climbing days, and this can be illustrated when the baby perceives a danger of falling - the 'grab' reflex is strong and instant.

The implications are quite profound : grabbing a finger placed in the palm is not a particularly taxing problem, but working out when to grab is. Having worked on some vision-control computer systems I know some of the issues and complexities involved. How does the baby know it is in danger of falling? The available data is limited - some feedback from the inner-ear, but not much at so young an age; visual clues, but again pretty limited in very young babies, since they cannot focus properly; feedback from muscles and nerves would be the final input. Already there is some serious processing going on to work out when it is necessary to grab - and this is hours after birth, before the baby has chance to experiment by trial and error.

As the baby develops it learns to grab objects in free-space. This could be reaching out for a toy, reaching for a parent's hand. This involves a whole series of calculations, even if unconscious. There are distances to be factored, as well as movement in space. There are estimates to be made (of reach, distance, speed) and there is often some element of prediction/anticipation required. All this is going on in the brain without the baby being conscious of it. It is certainly maths and, what is more, I would be prepared to bet a substantial amount that you can't even do the maths necessary for a task as simple as catching a ball now, as an adult.
The child does it fairly naturally.

Watch a group of girls doing a skipping or ball game. Watch a juggler. The mathematics is obvious and high level. Differential calculus is the tools that we would use to tackle this sort of problem (involving multiple objects moving at different veolocities and accelerations) but the brain just needs a bit of practice in most cases and away you go.

[anwiii]

hmmm....interesting, bikerman.... you are the only one to give minor facts that relate to the topic here. part of your so called facts though is to presume babies have a natural instinct related to past generations and evolution. i wouldn't call it evidence, but it is certainly something to think about....

i have to sober up a little before i give my full opinion here

[Bikerman]

anwiii, on 16 September 2010 - 05:01 PM, said:

hmmm....interesting, bikerman.... you are the only one to give minor facts that relate to the topic here. part of your so called facts though is to presume babies have a natural instinct related to past generations and evolution. i wouldn't call it evidence, but it is certainly something to think about....

i have to sober up a little before i give my full opinion here

It is not merely a presumption, it is supported by good evidence. Exactly the same grab response can be observed in tree dwelling/using primates such as chimps, and various monkey species. Interestingly a baby also has the same reflex in the feet, although obviously they are evolved to a point where that is of little practical use.
If you have never tried it then you might be surprised just how strongly a newly born baby will grasp a finger placed in its palm.
The evolutionary origin is also supported by other reflexes/behaviours present in babies. One such is the parachute reflex. If you watch a baby falling forwards it will instinctively throw its arms out wide. This is counter intuitive for land-dwelling species - you would expect the baby to instinctively cover the face/head region. It makes sense for an arboreal species, however, because it increases drag, slows down the rate of descent, and gives the baby a better chance of surviving a fall from height.