24 replies to this topic

[inea]

Windows seems to be the operating program that is installed in a lot of computers. And Apple seems to have got a small portion of the market. And Linux seems to have eaven a smallier part. This can be considered a kind of strange. Since Linux is free. And Windows costs a lot more. There are probably many reasons to find why Windows is used more compared to the operating programs of Apple and Linux. Maybe the efforts to get Linux working are too big compare to the price people are willing to pay for their operating program. And Apple costs maybe too much for a lot of people.

Other options people take in consideration are maybe the service provided by software service companies, the availibity of other programs that run on the operating program and the easiness of Windows. Maybe the advertisement and promotion actions of Microsoft are of importancy too.

It seems nevertheless strange that 1 company can earn big profits by products while other companies don't copy the approach and make their own product to sell on the market that seems to offer big revenues.

Edited by inea, 11 October 2010 - 10:31 PM.

[sheepdog]

To you young whipper snappers that grew up using a mouse for a teething ring, you need to understand for us old foggies, it's all about easy. Windows got the jump on everybody, and since it is what most people use it's the easiest for us computer illerates to get somebody to help us when we get stuck. Heck, I don't even know what linux is. I have heard some strange stories about how there are other operating systems for surfing besides internet explorer, but I would be scared to even try them. Fox fire as far as I'm concerned is a series of books.

[rpgsearcherz]

sheepdog, on 30 September 2010 - 02:20 AM, said:

To you young whipper snappers that grew up using a mouse for a teething ring, you need to understand for us old foggies, it's all about easy. Windows got the jump on everybody, and since it is what most people use it's the easiest for us computer illerates to get somebody to help us when we get stuck. Heck, I don't even know what linux is. I have heard some strange stories about how there are other operating systems for surfing besides internet explorer, but I would be scared to even try them. Fox fire as far as I'm concerned is a series of books.

This. No other operating system is as easy to use and user-friendly as Windows. Plus their resources in terms of pure cash are large enough for them to pay off other companies to support them and only them (which is one of the reasons most game companies only support Windows, via DirectX, instead of using OpenGL which is basically the same but is cross-platform).

Due to those reasons alone it really doen't matter how much better any other OS gets; it will never be able to compete with Windows.

[Saint_Michael]

rpgsearcherz, on 30 September 2010 - 02:25 AM, said:

This. No other operating system is as easy to use and user-friendly as Windows. Plus their resources in terms of pure cash are large enough for them to pay off other companies to support them and only them (which is one of the reasons most game companies only support Windows, via DirectX, instead of using OpenGL which is basically the same but is cross-platform).

Due to those reasons alone it really doen't matter how much better any other OS gets; it will never be able to compete with Windows.

Well there was Windows ME and of course Windows Vista in which they were not user friendly and created more problems then there should have been. However, other factors came into play as to why Microsoft has dominated the Operating system business and that includes both hard and software support and the biggest one PC customization. User interface and user friendliness are big factor as well, but if Apple were to open up its OS like Microsoft has then it would be different story.

[rpgsearcherz]

Saint_Michael, on 02 October 2010 - 11:26 PM, said:

Well there was Windows ME and of course Windows Vista in which they were not user friendly and created more problems then there should have been. However, other factors came into play as to why Microsoft has dominated the Operating system business and that includes both hard and software support and the biggest one PC customization. User interface and user friendliness are big factor as well, but if Apple were to open up its OS like Microsoft has then it would be different story.

To most people, ME and Vista were very user friendly as well. For the average user all they need access to is the "Start" menu, their browser, and a couple other programs. There are still a lot of people who prefer Vista over XP/7 for the reason that they are afraid of change.

[mahesh2k]

Quote

Well there was Windows ME and of course Windows Vista in which they were not user friendly and created more problems then there should have been.

I beg to differ. Other than crashing and bugs, windows ME was just like windows 98 in use. Windows Vista was improvement over XP and it was still user friendly. People had no trouble using that.

Speaking of user friendliness-

"/usr/accountname/directory1/ directory 2" is easy to remember and organize than ' C:/" or "d" or "e:" drives ?

requiring internet connection for most of known software from repository is user friendly ? or getting those softwares via dvd or disc is still user friendly ?

and list goes on.

[rvalkass]

inea, on 29 September 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

There are probably many reasons to find why Windows is used more compared to the operating programs of Apple and Linux. Maybe the efforts to get Linux working are too big compare to the price people are willing to pay for their operating program. And Apple costs maybe too much for a lot of people.

Consider how the average computer user buys their computer. They walk into a shop (or an online retailer) and buy a PC. It is usually loaded with Microsoft Windows by default. To get Apple's operating system you have to specifically go to Apple's shop and buy an Apple device. To get a Linux operating system you have to install it yourself. Most people simply stick with what they're given. Simple as that.

sheepdog, on 30 September 2010 - 02:20 AM, said:

To you young whipper snappers that grew up using a mouse for a teething ring, you need to understand for us old foggies, it's all about easy. Windows got the jump on everybody, and since it is what most people use it's the easiest for us computer illerates to get somebody to help us when we get stuck. Heck, I don't even know what linux is. I have heard some strange stories about how there are other operating systems for surfing besides internet explorer, but I would be scared to even try them. Fox fire as far as I'm concerned is a series of books.

Two days ago I was in a small village on the coast, in the village shop. There were two computers in the corner, for people to pay for internet access and computer use for a few minutes. I was pleasantly surprised, when someone used one of the computers, to see the familiar colours of Ubuntu. I went for a closer look, and that confirmed my suspicions - Ubuntu on these public-access PCs. The woman using the PC was not in the first flush of youth, but said the PC was very easy to use and understand. It is a matter of people not liking change. People who use Linux can find Windows and Apple a pain in the backside. People who use Macs can find Windows and Linux a pain in the backside. People who use Windows can find Macs and Linux a pain, but always find Windows to be unusable

mahesh2k, on 03 October 2010 - 11:30 AM, said:

Speaking of user friendliness-

"/usr/accountname/directory1/ directory 2" is easy to remember and organize than ' C:/" or "d" or "e:" drives ?

requiring internet connection for most of known software from repository is user friendly ? or getting those softwares via dvd or disc is still user friendly ?

/home/rob is a bit easier to remember and type than C:\Documents and Settings\Rob\My Documents

Downloading software from online repositories free and in the background to be installed automatically is much easier than spending 6 months and ~£500 getting a driving licence, buying a car, driving to a shop, buying software on a CD, driving it back, installing it, fighting with the anti-virus software, having a go at installing it again, then leaving the CD on the shelf for years.

[mahesh2k]

Quote

/home/rob is a bit easier to remember and type than C:\Documents and Settings\Rob\My Documents

When all the files are saved in /root/rob then tell me how easy it is organize and remember or type. You are forced to use command line where windows doesn't force you at all. You are forced to use sudo and CLI in 60-70% of managing OS. Besides you can move my documents to e:/my documents or d: my documents in case of windows. is there anything easy to remember path in linux ? NO.

Let's face it, linux still force us to use CLI. Linux has huge dependency issue with libraries and multiple distribution makes offline software installation and distribution difficult.

Quote

Downloading software from online repositories free and in the background to be installed automatically is much easier than spending 6 months and ~£500 getting a driving licence, buying a car, driving to a shop, buying software on a CD, driving it back, installing it, fighting with the anti-virus software, having a go at installing it again, then leaving the CD on the shelf for years.

Assuming that there is fast or moderate speed internet your case is applicable. But internet censorship is on rise and from unlimited plans ISP are shifting to limited data plans. Dialup users still exist so CD and DVD even if remains on shelf for years are worth to keep. Especially when software is commercial people prefer to get CD or DVD for network installation. Many firms keep data safe by not connecting their home network to internet for such type of consumers DVD/CD is important. Sofware repository based OS don't solve those problems and in fact make it harder. Commercial value from those free repository is already seen during recession and people are moving back to profitable platforms.

Linux doesn't have script kiddies ? viruses ? browser spywares ? software doesn't fail or get corrupt while installing ? there is no dependency hell? I didn't expected you to raise this point.

[rvalkass]

mahesh2k, on 04 October 2010 - 03:46 AM, said:

When all the files are saved in /root/rob then tell me how easy it is organize and remember or type. You are forced to use command line where windows doesn't force you at all. You are forced to use sudo and CLI in 60-70% of managing OS. Besides you can move my documents to e:/my documents or d: my documents in case of windows. is there anything easy to remember path in linux ? NO.

Well, files are organised in the same way as any other operating system. So, for example, I have folders such as /home/rob/Photographs and /home/rob/University Work each containing sub folders to organise them further. If I then want to organise the files further (such as separating RAW camera images from JPEGs) I can sort by file type in the file browser. I can also apply other filters and searches.

You are never forced to use the command line for anything. In fact, I mainly use it for running whois queries simply because it's quicker than waiting for a website to load When people use the command line they use it because they find it quicker and easier.

With respect to the "easy to remember" paths on Windows - there is no need for that sort of thing on Linux. I have my home directory on a separate partition. Linux handles that behind the scenes so that the standard path of /home/username always works. I could move the home directory to a completely separate disk and it would still be handled invisibly. There's no need to remember a random drive letter. However, if /home/rob is still a bit hard to remember, you can always create a symlink (shortcut) to it so you can use something like /rob instead.

mahesh2k, on 04 October 2010 - 03:46 AM, said:

Let's face it, linux still force us to use CLI. Linux has huge dependency issue with libraries and multiple distribution makes offline software installation and distribution difficult.

No. No. And no. You're not forced to use the command line at any stage. Software dependencies (which exist in Windows too) are handled automatically by the package management software. Offline software installation is possible and quite popular - see the DVDs that distributions ship out containing their distribution and all available software packages for those with limited/no Internet access.

mahesh2k, on 04 October 2010 - 03:46 AM, said:

Assuming that there is fast or moderate speed internet your case is applicable. But internet censorship is on rise and from unlimited plans ISP are shifting to limited data plans. Dialup users still exist so CD and DVD even if remains on shelf for years are worth to keep. Especially when software is commercial people prefer to get CD or DVD for network installation. Many firms keep data safe by not connecting their home network to internet for such type of consumers DVD/CD is important. Sofware repository based OS don't solve those problems and in fact make it harder. Commercial value from those free repository is already seen during recession and people are moving back to profitable platforms.

Linux doesn't have script kiddies ? viruses ? browser spywares ? software doesn't fail or get corrupt while installing ? there is no dependency hell? I didn't expected you to raise this point.

See above comments about shipped DVDs to answer the first paragraph. Viruses are very rare on Linux systems, and the few that do exist can do very little damage due to the way the OS is designed. Browser problems are just that - problems with the browser, so they exist on any version of that browser - Linux, Apple and Windows. If software, for whatever reason, fails to install then the OS seamlessly rolls back to before the installation started. It is, however, very rare for software installation to fail. And dependency hell pretty much disappeared when package management systems came in - they manage the dependencies for you.

[Baniboy]

Well, if you are really, really, REALLY LAZY (like mahesh2k ), you can always type "~". (mahesh i thought you liked linux). Besides, you can create a folder in ROOT, configure it to be owned and read-write -accessed by user. That should solve your problemo. You can change those things, you know, and all you need to do is to "sudo nautilus" once.
The points of both of you contain generally the same content. That is, it depends on the situation. I don't get why you're fighting over the home folder path. People's memory works in a funny way. After some time it wouldn't matter if it's the standard Windows path or the usual Linux path. Just like after some time you don't read every letter in the word, but just determine which word it is by the overall shape of it. This is actually proven by neurologists, so don't dare to disagree.

And yes, you can make local repositories, and unlike in windows, there is a neat way of doing that, too. You can configure which software you want pre-installed as you install the OS itself. I view customized standard live-cd/usb easier than installing the OS and installing the other stuff afterwards. Also, you can use simple deb-packages on a dvd or usb, too. That won't take care of the dependencies tho. You also have to face the fact that most of the applications being installed right now by normal users for non-commercial uses are downloaded from the internet.

As for user-friendliness, no, Linux is not user-friendly. I know what most are going to say but no. There are several problems that make it not so friendly to the people between the average granny and the computer nerd. The average granny isn't going to find out those problems and the nerd will know how to solve them, but the people in between... they're screwed. Like me

Anyway, in my opinion if you don't want to learn to be able to use something better, you don't deserve better. Just like those people whining about how it's impossible to determine what kind of TV they should buy. If you have no interest in studying the products you're going to buy, don't, but don't whine about it to other people. If windows sucks for you and you're still using it knowing there is something better, you deserve the crashes and the viruses. It's give and take.