64 replies to this topic

[sheepdog]

To get the pups started on solid food, just pick a good quality puppy feed, and soak it for awhile, until it is soft and offer it to them. Seems to be more palatable if you soak it in good hot water, and feed it while still warm. When I have it available, I soak mine in goat milk, but there is some dissagreement as to wether or not it can cause a calcium inbalance in the pups diets, but it certainly does get them to start eating it a lot better, and it has never seemed to bother my pups. They recognise the smell of milk, which is their usual food up to this point.

Sometimes pups will just start chewing on the dry food if it is in with them, but since I don't think you are leaving food out for them because of mom growling at them, they won't get that chance. That kind of makes it harder to get them started, plus pups should eat frequent small meals to grow well, since they have a high metabolisim rate and tiny stomaches and can't eat a lot at one time.

Yes, it is perfectly normal for the mother to loose weight when nursing pups. Any dog who is truely a good mother will do this, and will do it no matter what or how much you feed them. Making milk for all those pups takes an extreme amount of energy. she will gain it all back after the pups are weaned, don't worry.

[velma]

Yeah, I totally agree with sheepdog in regards to the food. My delphi's pups were started with soaked puppy food and nowadays you seem to get different varieties of weaning milk, starter puppy foods and all.. I usually don't give little ones dry food or biscuits since hard bits could hamper the growth/health of teeth but Sheepdog should be able to help out better with when to start dry food.. For now, until they grow bigger, keep them on soft food that can be smooshed in your fingers since puppies tend to gobble food without actually chewing it, I know mine did >_<

And it is perfectly normal for mother dog to get super skinny after whelping.. Delphi had reduced to a horribly emaciated state after her whelping... Scared the entire family because we thought it was abnormal but our family vet explained to us the same thing, once she starts feeding only herself and not her and pups.. She could fatten up again

Also since you mentioned that this is the last litter, I would recommend that you get Dido checked out by your vet once puppies are completely off her milk. Through personal experience at the clinic, always make sure to get momma & poppa sterilized when they are young since it increases their life span, reduces chances of developing mammary gland cancer/prostrate cancer by a big number. Out of 10 old female dogs we had, at least 7-8 died due to cancer or due to Pyometra(an infection of the uterus)... Usually a vet will give you a discount if you get multiple animals sterilized in one session since resource cost is reduced(At least our family vet does that).

And we want MORE PICTURES! Take care

[sheepdog]

Velma is absolutly right on target. The biggest killer of dogs, especially females are mamory tumors and Pyometra. The Pyrometra is a fast killer, by the time you even realize your dog is sick, she will be dead in a matter of hours, especially in cases where the infection is completely internalized and there is no vaginal discharge. There is no better excuse for spaying and neutering than these two problems. I believe even her personal experiences to the 7-8 out of 10 is probably pretty close to acurate for all unspayed females. Oddly, Pyrometra is not as much of a problem in dog that are bred regularly as in those that just have a litter or 2 and are never bred again. But the mammory tumors hit all of them, bred or just unspayed pets.

As far as dry puppy food, if they will eat it, it's fine for them dry. I've had pups as young as 2 weeks crawl up into the feed dish and try to chew it. I once had a litter of Bull Mastiff's that didn't even have their eyes open and were trying to chew dry dog food, but those things are just greedy little eating machines to start with. It actually helps them cut their teeth, so as long as the momma dog doesn't snap at her pups for getting into the feed, they should have it available 24/7 for snacking on. It helps mom too if she can eat a bite whenever she wants. Most dogs will let their pups eat, about the only ones I ever had any trouble with were my mastiff breeds. They are all unfit mothers. I never really understood that. I raise a lot of terriers and while they dearly love to fight each other when they are grown up, they make the best mothers when it comes to taking care of their puppies.

[mrdee]

Very true, both Velma and Sheepdog.

I have seen it all too often, the mammary tumours and Pyometras.
Fortunately, in all the cases of mammary tumours, we have always managed to bring them to a good end because either they were detected early, or were benign (before the real damage had time to step in).

It is indeed a very common thing to happen in dogs, and they do not even have to be old.

Of course, when I say "we managed to bring them to a good end", that is by no means a guarantee that a tumour in another teat will not return.

As for Pyometras, they are indeed very dangerous, fortunately (not in all cases, I know), the vaginal discharge of pus gives it away immediately, in that case, even an idiot can recognise the signs and take his/her dog to a vet for immediate attention and as good as immediate treatment.

Thankfully, there are lots of sensible dog owners too, in the few Caesarians I assisted in, after the puppies were delivered we also (at the owner's request, of course) the dog's reproductive system, which can be seen as a sensible precaution.
(The only thing is, it is quite a major and long-winded procedure, if everything was just as simple as neutering a cat).

However, we are going to have Dido neutered, but we have to let her get into season once more, without any contraceptive injection or anything.
The danger obviously exists that Lucky is going to try and hump her again, as we have no way of keeping them apart, but we will let Lucky have a special injection to suppress his sexual instincts instead.

We also intend to have Lucky done later, so he can get some sort of protection against testicle or prostate cancer.

We live by the principle that the happiness, well-being and good health of our animals is a number one priority (a pity the vets are so incredibly expensive here, though).

Now, coming back to the puppies, they had their first independent meal today.
Nanna got them dry puppy food and soaked that in hot water and then put it in the puppies' habitat (after letting the water cool off enough, of course) and the puppies were not sure what happened in the beginning, but their sense of smell got the better of them after a little while and they really jumped at the food.
Quite often they ended up standing in the feeding bowl rather than next to it, and a lot of the food ended up on the floor, where it then got picked up and eaten, but being messy eaters is a well known puppy feature, so, there you go.

Nevertheless, the little babies loved the food, so we will gradually get them onto that and wean them off feeding off their mum, so Dido can begin t get her energy back and gain back her weight that was lost after having and feeding the puppies.

So, we can say we have now come to a milestone in the puppies' lives, a first step to growing up.

I will ask nanna to post some pictures of the puppies eating in the Gallery.

Once again, Sheepdog and Velma, thank you for all your help, advice and support.

Edited by mrdee, 25 November 2011 - 02:00 AM.

[sheepdog]

However, we are going to have Dido neutered, but we have to let her get into season once more, without any contraceptive injection or anything.

Why wait? Every heat cycle your dog has increases her chances for mamory tumors. She can be safely spayed just as soon as you wean the pups, and maybe give her a few weeks to regain a pound or 2 before stressing her out with the surgery. If you wean the pups at 8 week, you still have 2 months before she will cycle again. That's plenty of time for her to recuporate from raising the litter.

[mrdee]

Well, that is what I thought too, but the vet advised us to let her have another heat cycle.

I, personally, would like to have the operation done as soon as possible, as we decided beforehand we only intended to let our Dido have one litter only, and I do know how great the risk on mammary tumours and cancer of the womb are.

Also, as you advise, I think we should let her gain a bit of weight, as I do not want my lovely animal going on the table being too weak, with the risk of her going into cardiac arrest after getting the anaesthetic and not surviving the operation because of a lack of energy and/or resistance because of having given too much of her energy and fat contents because of having and feeding the puppies.

I just want her to be back on her feet again before i subject her to such major surgery, but the good news is, we have now began to wean the puppies off the mother's milk and then it will be a matter of giving Dido time to strengthen up a bit and build up a bit of resistance.

[sheepdog]

I am going to have to give you the same advice I give to a lot of other folks. It seems that there are way too many people that really worship vets, and take their word as gosple. So this is what I have to remind people of.

50% of all Vets graduated in the bottom half of their class.

Simple fact. But obviously it's completely true. Not all vets are that smart. There are some really good ones out there, and some not so good. If your dog gains her weight back and is in good health there is NO reason to put her threw another heat cycle.

[mrdee]

I know, Sheepdog.
I have seen quite a few vets in my time, good and bad ones.

I was fortunate enough to work for a very competent one (f only he had been as good a human being as he was a vet, things would have been great, but that is a different story).

Anyhow, I found it quite surprising about the new heat cycle, but did not really to question the vet's judgement (yet).

However, as I mentioned before, my dog is NOT going on that tbale until I am sure she is strong enough to survive the anaesthetic.

And, once again, Sheepdog, thank you so much for all your wonderful help and advice.
(By the way, I shall be posting links to a few videos of the puppies).
Here is one: http://www.facebook....v/2246911258560
This is about the puppies eating by themselves.

And this one: http://www.facebook.com/v/2246911258560

This one is where the puppies are walking around.

By the way, one thing is really annoying about the little brats:

They fight like, well, puppy and puppy.
Sometimes we hear them yelping, and when we look, one is hanging from the other's ear, or one is biting the other's nose or back, and things like that.

The problem is, they are too young to understand, I guess, quite often, Dido sort of tells them off, but our "NO" does not seem to have a great effect on them.

Edited by mrdee, 29 November 2011 - 01:31 AM.

[mrdee]

I'm afraid I have to write an update on a lesser note now:

Earlier today, nanna had to take Dido to the vet.

We noticed the poor animal had developed a diarrhoea, it was literally like water running out of her.
We started with the obvious remedy by putting her on a diet of rice and some chicken, but that made no difference.

I then noticed that Dido had a fever too, so we thought it would be best to take her to the vet.

He gave her an injection and gave us some antibiotic pills and a bottle of liquid for her to take.

He said that the diarrhoea is sometimes caused by the stress of feeding the puppies, so he advised us not to let her feed the puppies anymore and to put the puppies on solid food completely now.

He also noticed Dido was very thin, her weight has dropped to 19 kilos (about 41 pounds) and he says it is essential to gain some weight as soon as possible.
He said that having a big litter has taken a lot of weight out of her.

However, we were also told there is a lot of this condition going around among dogs at the moment.

So, we will keep doing what we have been told to do and hope for the best, and see what happens when we take her back on Friday morning.

[nanna]

Well people you are not going to believe this our cat Ebony gave birth to 5 kittens this afternoon.
We didnt suspect Ebony being pregnant until about 2 weeks ago this is her 2nd litter and will be her last litter.
This afternoon mrdee and i had a nap with our eldest grandaughter who is staying over till tuesday.
Upon waking up i went to the kitchen followed by lucky and dido on entering the kitchen i heard what i thought was tiny meows i looked to where Ebony was laying and i could see a kitten so i quickly cleared lucky and dido out of the kitchen before they had chance to bark at Ebony as they usually do.
I went back to the kitchen not just one kitten but three kittens were on the bench so Ebony had decided to have her kittens on the kitchen work bench instead of the laundry basket i had made up for her and showed her a couple of times.
I called mrdee to the kitchen i placed the laundry basket on the work bench and mrdee placed Ebony and the three kittens in it and i went and prepared one of the spare bedrooms to put Ebony and her kittens in i put a litter tray in there for Ebony water and food.I went down to the kitchen and carried Ebony and the three kittens in the laundry basket to the spare room.
I then went and scrubbed the kitchen work bench clean and sterelized it.
I went upstairs a little while later before i got dinner and there was five kittens with Ebony in the basket all cleaned up and feeding.
An hour ago i went to check on Ebony and the kittens there were still only five kittens but Ebony had been and eaten and drunk some water.
And it looks like three have got new homes already.

Edited by nanna, 03 December 2011 - 01:33 AM.