87 replies to this topic

[Shackman]

I am not too sure, but for many of you, this is a sensitive topic. I hope the contents of this post do not offend or collide with and religon or beliefs. This is merely a POST!!!

Many a time, I ask myself, should we even eat meat? Maybe most of us are aware that animals have to be killed in order for us to obtain thier meat. Little do we know how the animals are killed or the sufferings they encounter.

Generally, most chickens are reared large-scale and they are known as battery chickens. The battery chickens are give very poor living conditions. They are known as battery because their cells are like batteries. The chickens are tightly packed together like sardines. Maybe you have been in a crowded bus before. Imagine the agony of squeezing. Those poor chickens are squashed throughout their whole life.

The chickens are in a dark shack, lacking sunlight. They are not allowed to move.

They are made to lay eggs everyday. They are injected with chemicals to make them produce more eggs. Imagine, a mother giving birth is so much agony, imagine the poor, young chicken, funding Singapore's egg demand!

Once the chickens cannot meet the targets by the egg farm, they are sent to the slaughter house. They are first loaded into small and tiny cages and loaded into a lorry. The lorry takes its long and bumpy journey to the slaughter house. The slaughter house is usually at a very rural area and so there are no proper roads. This makes the journey very bumby and the chickens are badly brused.

Once the chickens reach the SLAUGHTER HOUSE, they are hung by their legs on a moving conveior belt. They are then dipped, and technically dipped, into a large pan of electrified water, like you dipping french fries into tomato sauce. Some are stunned, some are knocked out but some are unaffected. Their throats are then slit and they are left helplessly to bleed. While they are dieing, workers pluck their feathers off. This all happens when the chicken is bleeding, that means that it is ALIVE!!!!!!!!!. Imagine that. After their featehrs are plucked, they are thrown into canster of water and left to die.

Maybe this article has shed some light on your eating habits. Maybe you would think twice about the poor, helpless animal who was slaughtered before you munch happily on their meat. We sound like barbarians.

I remember a show named 'Planet of the Apes'. If my memory servers me correctly, there was a scene where the humans were captured in cages. Now, lets take a comparison, when humans are the victims, we make it as though we are prisoners and that we do not deserve this. When we capture animals and put them in the same condition to be killed, we say nothing about it and don't even care about it. Are we being like Apes??

I hope all off us will take time to think about how human domination has cause alot of suffering. Maybe think about the poor animal before eating.

-Shackman

[ill]

Survival of the Fittest. The Food Chain.

Just a few examples of why I eat meat.

Plus, it tastes good. I don't like fried chicken though, grilled is a different story.. yummy.

[Furor]

I think that humans have their teeth shaped in such a way as to rip of stuff like meat. I'm talking about the sharp incisors. And if you look at any plant-eating animal, such as the deer, they don't have them. They have straight flat teeth. Lions have sharp kinfe-like teeth like we do. So I feel there's nothing wrong to it!
I might be wrong though.

[Shackman]

We have flat molars. We have probably evolved to be omnivores through our many thousand years of eating meat. The body has to adapt.

-Shackman

[adriantc]

I think there are many questions regarding the way we treat animals, but this is not one of them. I belive eating meat is normal since we are the most inteligent specie alive, but that does not excuse the suffering of the animals. So we should eat meat but we also must take care of how we treat them.
For example, in my country (which is due to enter in EU in 2007) we have a tradition of killing pigs before Christmas and Easter. We do it just by sticking a knife in the pigs throut. I think the pig suffers a lot but that is the way we do it for ages. Since Romania is due to enter in the European Union we will have to adapt. Some have done that already. For example people make the pig drunck and then they kill it.
There are still many questions like why do we hunt animals since we no longer need that sort of food for a living. That would be the real question...

[Trystim]

Yes you bring up a good topic that is sensitive to many people.

The fact has been proven if we wouldn't kill these animals to eat them they would eventually overrun the human population and outnumber us severly. How we obtain the meat is a different story such as I will not ever touch veal, reason being it is a cow that from birth is put into a cage so that it can not move so the muscles (meat) stays tender and is not ever toughened once it hits a certain age it is slaughtered. There can't be to much wrong with it if you remember it says in the bible God gave everything to us to use.

As stated how we go about using what is given to us may not be the proper way but it is here for our survival.

Look at it this way, yes they don't have a verbal form of communication but vegetarians kill living entities also named plants and those in turn actually make it possible for us to live by putting off oxygen for us to breath the tree's alone can not produce the oxygen the world would need to breath and survive.

Both vegetarian & and carnivores (meat eaters) have flawed beliefs in why they eat what they eat. My fiance is vegetarian, now she isn't a Vegan which is no animal products at all but she has cut about 95% of animal products from her diet. I am a meat eater and we get along just fine it costs us more to shop and get our food mainly due to vegetarian items costing alot more then stuff I eat but we understand we each have our own belief's and we share our opinions but that is extent of it neither of us force the others belief's on each other.

just my opinion in the post thanks for reading.

[Neutrality]

Well think about this question as a hypothetical question: if humans did not eat meat at all, if not one single human ate meat, do you know what
would happen? More deadly diseases would spread and be formed from
the rotting corpses of the animals. Instead of slaughtering them, they
would just die naturally and their corpses would probably rot some-where (unless you burn their bodies).

Look at India for example. In most places, cows are considered to be sacred, so those Indians refrain from eating cow meat, and some even go vegetarian. So instead of eating them, they are going to let the cows die off. Their rotten corpses will give off diseases (possibly mad cow disease), and many humans will die in that area.

You see, when humans stop eating animals, diseases begin to form and spread. But, another important factor is that meat contains important vitamins that most fruits and vegetables don't have - protein. Protein
breaks down into amino acids, which help humans fight off certain diseases, and help increase the health of their immune systems. These
are two reasons why eating meat is important.

[dundun2007]

I beleive its all about the food chain, every animal or mammal needs another one in order to survive. For example we dont all need meat to survive but thats where most of out minerals comes from, and besides meat is how people surived thousands of years ago. There is people who only eat veggies but then theres a huge % of people that do eat meat almsot everday. According to the earlier years meat was something you had to hunt for, which shows how other animals hunt as well.

[Caveman]

There are two notions pulling my head in opposite directions. The first one: I firmly believe that animals were not placed on earth to serve humans; i.e. they must not be used as means to our own ends. In this sense, technically, killing an animal for its meat WOULD be morally wrong.

The other one: the inevitable introduction of Darwinism into the picture would suggest that humans ARE the only animals (as far as we know) that possess a flow of logic. That is, we are capable of making our own judgements while resisting impulse. Animals cannot do that: they must give in to their primitive desires. Hence, it would make sense for us to dominate the food chain. And when you're at the top, nothing's going to stop you from getting what you want.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...eating meat is morally wrong, but biologically correct. I am a carnivore, BTW. I am not a huge fan of meat, but I'll get my basket of chicken fingers here and there, a hot dog at the baseball game, a McDonald's hamburger for a quick lunch, etc. Although it's not something that crosses my mind when I'm actually eating, I have thought about it on my own time. I do feel pretty bad about it, but it's not something I can exactly change my lifestyle over...I have nothing against vegetarians, but I just don't think I'd like to become one myself. Hehe. Rock on

[JaVe]

Yes well i don't support mcd's or anything, they mix cardboard with their burgers. I like chilis and fuddruckers though hehe! But, get to the point, sure, our teeth are not meant for ripping meat, but i've got some mega incisors:

Plus meat is very tasty. And, cavemen ate meat, if they said "Hey, meat is cruel, don't eat it" - we'd not be alive, they didn't have the technology to make soya burgers. BUT - still from soya burgers todya, we get our proteins from REAL meat & fish and vitamins from vegetables. Just my opinion.

[ashiezai]

i think we must eat meat .. to get the complete nutrition which we cant get it from plant .. survival of the fittest .. i agreed .. but i think that we should minimize the pain that the animal suffer when they are killed ...

[trp]

Ok, in English awhile ago I had to do a debate on stem cell research, and the first paragraph of my opening speech (I don't want to get into this, but I was arguing negative, that it should not be researched, but that is not what I believe) I talked about how we don't really care about it until we see someone famous person (ie Michael J. Fox) has Parkinson's and is pushing forward research. The suddenly we want to 'help the world' and have the government give grants to labs to find a cure.

The same reasoning can be applied to meat. Sure, there are those (ie some vegatarians) that don't eat meat cuz of their sympathy for the animal, but for me I can't feel any sympathy. I know that at first it doesn't sound right, sounds like I'm some cruel heartless worker at the slaughterhouse. But I'm not, I just can't feel for animals suffering, I have no attachment to them.

But if, for example, I had a pet, let's say a cat (cuz I do have one), and he was to be taken to the slaughterhouse and then served as someone's meal, I would be mortified (and nauseated), because I love my cat, I have an emotional attachment to him.

The chicken that I eat for dinner I can eat cuz it doesn't look like a real chicken, and I don't know the chicken that I am eating. But I don't like eating fish (cept tuna) cuz when you buy it it still has it's head and eyes, and before it's cooked you're just looking at the dead carcass of an innocent animal.

[OpaQue]

Animals : Carnivores dont have the brains to make decisions. They are made so that they can kill. ITs their destiny. They have been programmed from birth that, what moves can be killed and Eaten!

Humans : We can make our decision. You have been given the power to think as a Gift.

YOU HAVE 2 OPTIONS BEFORE EATING BEAF!

1> Either Dont eat it and let the cow live!
2> Kill n EAT!

WHY I FEEL IT IS CRUEL
As Shackman pointed out, Those facts are true. A Cow's throat is simply Slit and it is bled to death so that its meat remains tender! Seriously, it is shocking to see HUMANS doing this!

Also, I read this following phrase some where on the net and I took it quite seriously.. It did seem to have a point in it!

Quote

"If one can Kill another living creature to fill his desires even if he has a choice, He will not step back before killing another creature of own kind to fulfill his deeds!"

The above phrase is quite practical.

WHAT I BELIEVE ?
If you can't give life! You dont have any right to take one!

HERE ARE SOME FACTS ABOUT VEGETARIANS and ADVATAGES OF BEING A VEGETARIAN ( Source : andrews.edu )
I copied the contents because I knew many would simply ignore the links :-)

Quote

Regular fruit and vegetable consumption reduces the risk of ischemic heart disease. A recent survey of 47,000 Italians found that persons in the highest tertile of vegetable consumption had a 21and 11% reduced risk of myocardial infarction and angina, respectively, compared with those in the lowest tertile of vegetable consumption (12).

Longevity

Adventists can expect to live between 4 and 10 years longer than the general public. Not all Seventh-day Adventists are vegetarian. Vegetarian Adventists can expect to live up to 12 years longer. Adventists in general have an advantage over the general public probably because they eat more fruits and vegetables.

Less Heart Disease

Because of the low fat, saturated fat and cholesterol content of the vegetarian diet the risk of heart disease is lowered. High blood cholesterol levels are associated with increased risk of heart disease. Vegetarians have only half the risk of dying from a heart attack when compared with the general population.

Less Cancer

It is thought that up to 40% of all cancers are diet related. Cancer death rates have been associated with obesity and high-fat/low-fiber diets (a low in fruits, grains, and vegetables, but high in animal products). Vitamin A and C are thought to be protective against colon cancer. Lowfat diets protect against prostate and breast cancer.

Less Bowel Disease

Diverticular disease and appendicitis appear more frequently with lower fiber intakes. High fiber diets increase the ease with which the food can pass through the system and decrease the transit time from mouth to anus. Bile acids are very irritating to the lining of the intestine. Shorter transit time reduces the contact between nutrients and digestive juices and lining of the intestinal tract. Also less time is allowed for the breakdown of bile acids into carcinogenic substances.

Less Osteoporosis

Lower protein intake and a higher vitamin D and calcium intake may contribute to higher bone density in Seventh-day Adventist women.

Less Obesity

It is easier to plan a low-fat diet for a vegetarian than a low-fat diet for a meat eater. The fiber in plant foods dilutes the energy and provides a satisfying meal without all the calories. Diabetes over the age of 40 seems to be related to obesity. Those able to manage their weight will have less risk of diabetes.

Less Hypertension

The factors involved in high blood pressure are many, but 30-40% of society are sodium sensitive and would be better following a lower sodium diet.

Endurance

For many years it was thought that meat provided the energy for the muscle. It is now known that the best sources of food for endurance exercise are the carbohydrate foods. The body uses glucose to produce energy not protein. A meal of pasta is standard fare before a marathon race. It has been determined that vegetarians enjoy greater strengths of endurance than meat eaters.

BEAT THESE FACTS ( FOR THOSE WHO ARGUED THAT BY BEING NON-VEG THEY ARE HELPING THE ENVOIRNMENT )

Quote

If you belong to the vegetarian-by-choice species, you must be immune by now to the varied reactions to your culinary preferences. For those neophytes who are yet to develop a thick skin to queries ranging from the aggressive to the downright asinine, here are some tips:

Hunger argument: Eliminating meat eating will drastically cut livestock pasture and that land can then be used for growing food. One acre of land can produce 40,000 pounds of potatoes but only 250 pounds of meat. Already, vast quantities of food that can feed humans are being fed to livestock. For example, of all the corn grown in the USA, the livestock consumes 80 per cent and humans only 20 per cent.

Environmental argument: Topsoil erosion, global warming, depleting rainforests and extinction of species may be halted if the majority of the world's population adopts a vegetarian diet. For instance, according to research statistics, 300 million pounds of beef is imported from Central and South America to cater to the USA. The economic incentive impels these nations to cut their rainforests to make way for more pastureland.

Natural resources argument: Raising livestock is an inefficient way of generating food. While 25 gallons of water are needed to produce one pound of wheat, 5,000 gallons are used to produce one pound of beef. Also, it takes 78 calories of fossil fuel to produce one calorie of beef but only 2 calories for one calorie of soybean.

Antibiotics argument: A large amount of antibiotics are fed to livestock to control staphylococci. These are only partially effective, as the bacteria are becoming increasingly immune to them. Both the antibiotics and the bacteria they were intended to destroy are still in the meat when it goes to the market.

ANOTHER PRACTICAL FACT : SEARCHING "Non-vegetarian advantages" gives 10,000 results while Searching "Vegetarian Advantages" gives 216000 results.

"I dont want the non-veg's to convert to Veg diet after reading this, but I request to stop giving stupid explanations for why you are non-veg, rather than simply accepting the fact that science has proved that staying vegetarian is healthier! And if you switch to a veg. diet, you will be helping the nature! -Just Accept the fact."

FACT : Bill Gates is Vegetarian!

Another True FAct : I AM A VEGETARIAN TOO No doubt, I supported Vegetarians so much in this post. Its not that I was forced to be a vegetarian. But I switced when I saw the slaughtering with my own eyes. I still eat eggs. So, I am not a complete vegetarian, but more of an Eggitarian. But I support them and Accept the fact!

[Shackman]

Hey Opaque, I didn't know you were vergetarian.

I'm partially a vegetarian. I eat eggs too and ocasionally a dish or 2 of meat if I can't help it. In short, I try my very best to cut meat out from my diet.

Meat can get very tempting at times, that I agree. I get tempted too. But when I see the market as a living graveyard, it really makes me puke.

Here is a link to a gallery which shows how animals are exploited. One line I read from a book, which I still remember it very clearly, word for word cause it really left an impression on me.

Quote

If slaughterhouses had transparent glass walls, everyone would become a vegetarian.

Here's the link to the gallery:

Animal Exploitation Galler

Note: This pictures here can be quite graphic. Reality is always horrible.

And yes, this website has some Bible quotes, which highly suggests that this website is a project by a church. If you think God gave you EVERYTHING on this Earth for human's use, think again.

Quote

Approximately nine billion chickens like these are slaughtered every year in the U. S.. They are being deprived of their God-given liberty for their entire lives.  This is evil!  The Bible teaches us that we are to "rule" over the animals in the same way we expect our elected government officials to "rule" over us.

Think about this guys....we are the future generation. If we are going to be like this, our offspring will be like this too. It will be a never ending chain.

-Shackman

Edited by Shackman, 28 February 2005 - 02:15 PM.

[Caveman]

Ehm...thanks, Shackman. lol

I didn't think I would ever be forced to change my lifestyle, but seeing those pictures may have done just that

[cse-icons]

Opaque is right in saying that all non-vegetarians would not convert to vegetarianism but at least stop giving rubbish reason for eating meat.

I have heard all sorts of reasons like : survival of the fittest, and that there needs to be a balance in the nature, human teeth are meant for eating meat, getting other vitamins & proteins and what not....

I hope the following link would clear all your doubts and stop you from giving crap reasons:

http://www.animal-li...vego/vego.shtml

Also, to those who point out... In India there are many communities who are vegetarian, I dont find any health deficiency in any of them.. nor would you be able to point out.

Cows in India die naturally but I have never heard of 'mad cow disease' in India.
Moreover other predominantly meat-eating nations face this scare... so that does not prove any point...

I have just put in my points with no intention of hurting anyone's feelings.

[chungster]

Caveman, on Feb 26 2005, 10:03 AM, said:

There are two notions pulling my head in opposite directions. The first one: I firmly believe that animals were not placed on earth to serve humans; i.e. they must not be used as means to our own ends. In this sense, technically, killing an animal for its meat WOULD be morally wrong.


I guess what I'm trying to say is...eating meat is morally wrong, but biologically correct.



EDIT: i cut some stuff out so its the main point

there's no such things as morals, humans created them well actually humans didnt create them we thought up of them so technically it isnt morally wrong but thats only technically


also the way we kill those animals is probably not because we like to slaughter things but because it's more efficient and tastes better cuz they'll make less money if they let the chicken make an egg whenever it wants

[Casanova]

There is no health risks in eating meat sparingly as part of the human diet. The problem lies in that people tend to eat way too much meat, and that is what causes the obesity and other problems. A big reason for the terrible conditions in places where animals are raised is that companies try to keep up with the huge meat consumption by increasing speed and cuting cost as much as possible.

[Caveman]

Morality is the product of the existence of rational beings. We, the humans, ARE the rational beings, and morality has since been devised in order to keep our actions in line. I don't understand how you can say that morals do not exist...If there were no morals, people would be slaughtering each other like it was there job. Morality guides our principles, and it keeps us from doing stuff that is damaging to our society. When I said that humans use animals as a means to their own ends, I find that as a violation of the moral code. Technically, we're all animals, the only thing that makes us stand out is the fact that we can rationalize.

I am not completely swinging towards one particular way, I'm just trying to explain my stream of consciousness here. Yes, I do eat meat, and there are reasons that I and other people do, but at the same time I feel that I should and could be refraining from it. It doesn't make me a bad person. Everyone is liable to second-guess their actions every once in a while. Of course, when it involves food, the second-guessing doesn't have an enormous impact on you, especially when you're hungry

[chungster]

Caveman, on Mar 1 2005, 11:26 AM, said:

Morality is the product of the existence of rational beings. We, the humans, ARE the rational beings, and morality has since been devised in order to keep our actions in line. I don't understand how you can say that morals do not exist...If there were no morals, people would be slaughtering each other like it was there job. Morality guides our principles, and it keeps us from doing stuff that is damaging to our society. When I said that humans use animals as a means to their own ends, I find that as a violation of the moral code. Technically, we're all animals, the only thing that makes us stand out is the fact that we can rationalize.

I am not completely swinging towards one particular way, I'm just trying to explain my stream of consciousness here. Yes, I do eat meat, and there are reasons that I and other people do, but at the same time I feel that I should and could be refraining from it. It doesn't make me a bad person. Everyone is liable to second-guess their actions every once in a while. Of course, when it involves food, the second-guessing doesn't have an enormous impact on you, especially when you're hungry

bingo! we have morals to keep us in line but morals dont really exist it just really an idea

[Caveman]

Ideas don't exist? lol

[T100]

As long as the slaughtering does not induce a lot of pain to the animal, I think it is morally right to the eat animals. Human beings are born to be the tertiary consumer in the food chain, and human beings can do nothing about it. Nature has produced an equilibrium in which human can live harmoniously with other animals, and the predation itself is a natural process of nature. The animals also eat other species and even their own species, and the eating will not cause the other species to become extinct. Human beings just behave naturally in eating meat. Actually, many of the species that are on our dishes everyday would not have survived without human beings helping them to reproduce. This is a deal. Human helps those species to reproduce and colonize the world, and in return, those species fill our gluttony. There is nothing right or wrong with it…

[spawn_syxx9]

I don't see how eating the flesh of another animal is morally incorrect or correct. it is a matter of nature and wanting to survive. Yes there are those that thrive as vegetarians and good for them, that doesn't mean we were meant to only eat vegetables and non meat items.

[burgen]

if human don't eat meat, what do they eat? vegatables? eggs? while tell you a secret, vegatables are lifes too. eggs are embryos, the initial form of life. so if we stop eating other lifes, we will have noting to eat at all.

[Goosestaf]

Eating meat is morally correct
We need nutrients naturally found in meats to survive.
Being an all out vegen in my opinion is not natural.
Humans have eaten meat for ever, so why stop now.

I do agree that the way some animal farms operate is not fair, but its not the case all the time. I believe in killing animals in a humane way so that they feel no pain. Other than that breeding animals souly to be eaten by humans is fine
As someone has said its survival of the fittest.

I don't have a problem with vegeterians normally, but do when they try and victimize meat eaters and make you feel guilty. Thats just silly.

My final argument is meat is yummy